Engine choice...which would be better

[axle]

Ok so you're Williams...

You are unhappy with the customer deal you have with Toyota and are looking for a change.
The Merc, BMW and Ferrari engines are not available.
This leaves the Renault, Toyota and Cosworth engines.

Which do you choose.
Do you pick the Renault as it's proven in the Renault chassis at least (RBR build fragile cars which I'm sure has had some bearing on the engine failures they have had) and has decent if unremarkable power and good heat characteristics like the Merc...

Or

Do you go back to Toyota as is in all likely hood they will be able to make some changes to their powerunit to bring it upto spec (and it has been incredibly reliable). The risk being that they may want Williams to keep the slow Kazuki in a chair...

Or

Do you go for the unknown Cosworth as they going to be able to heavily homologate the CA2006 into the CA2010 and could easily spring a surprise which might be worth the risk...the risk being unreliability...they are also likely to be easier to work with and don't have a young driver they can force on the team.

[Confused_Andy]

Renault engine would win it for me. In the works car its been totally reliable as far as I remember, its put alonso, webber & vettel on a podium this year.

So there's obviously nothing wrong with the power, it just seems to be a bit unreliable for customer teams who install it themselves, maybe its RBR errors.

But we dont know what the Cosworth unit will be like I doubt it will be anything awful as they've had 8 months development time to bring it up to spec that the other manufacturers haven't.

Toyota, hmmm.

[ISLAMATRON]

Dont forget the fact that the Renault lump can accommodate KERS, Toyota can not, but that may be a moot point.

For an underfunded team like Williams, as a manager for them I would stick with the free Toyota engines but then again Kazoo is costing them money by never scoring points(and wrecking cars)... he has to get better sometime right?

[Callum]

I read somewhere that the Cosworth lump is something like 20Kg more hungry of fuel over a race distance compared to other engines. Can anyone back me up on this?

[sticky667]

considering Sir Frank has already publicly stated he thinks Cosworth are completely uncompetitive, I'm fairly certain they will be back with the Renault.

[axle]

I read somewhere that the Cosworth lump is something like 20Kg more hungry of fuel over a race distance compared to other engines. Can anyone back me up on this?

AFAIK that's not the case any more, as they have been allowed to optomise the engine further. It would have cost more in fuel when they were talking about a 20,000rpm rev limit. It still might be a little less frugal than some but I doubt it's going to be more than a 1-2kg.

[ESPImperium]

From what ive read, the CA2010 will be every bit as powerful as whats already out there, posibly somewhere between the Mercedes Benz F108W and the Ferarri 056 in power. As for Relyability, that will be worked on thrugh the season, whitch will lead to decreased fuel consumption as the season goes on. The CA2010 will consume somewhere in the region of arround 3 laps more fuel for every 200km or something like that at the start of the season. The Cosworth engineers are working like mad thats for shure to get a quality engine that can make it thrugh the first 2200km of its life.

But one thing is for me is that if i were Williams id go for a Renault powerplant, if you can get Rosberg to drive a FW30 and FW31 with a underpowered Toyota RVX-08 and RVX-09 youll be able to make Hulkenberg take the FW32 with a Renault RS27 to places it shouldnt, end of.

[ISLAMATRON]

Plus the new Cosworth will get more testing milage than any of the other lumps, except for maybe Merc.

[Raptor22]

hard to tell which engine will be best to opt for but i feel the Cosworth will pose fewer KERS integration problems for Williams (they have their own in house design based on flywheel technology)

also the Cosworth will be pretty reliable by January next year since cosworth has been offering the unit to customers since May 2009. it will be well developed by then.

Current F1 engine rules don't pose much of a challenge to engine designers so it won't be hard for them to product a reliable unit with competitive power and drivability.

The Renault,on the other hand is not as drivable and seems to lack reliability in the hands of anyone other than Santander's Goul.

The Toyota seems to lack drivability leading to poor acceleration out of corners and hence lower tope speed on the straights.

If I were Williams I'd have nothing to lose by taking the Cosworth but Renault would be my 2nd choice

[Jersey Tom]

Well, if I were a Williams engineer, I wouldn't just arbitrarily pick based on some hand-wavy comments.

a) I'd sign confidentiality agreements with ALL the engine manufacturers.
b) Get engine dyno data at a variety of different coolant and oil temperatures, etc
c) Determine licensing and usage costs
d) Pick the best based on data.

[xpensive]

Possibly this choice has something to do with financials?

[Raptor22]

coolant and oil temps are not that important...

whats important is time to rpm,
torque and power curves, etc

coolant and oil temp are moot because the engines used today are designed to be std, not bespoke, hence they have std performance curves with a std airbox. Oil temp is a specified figure and will determine heat exchanger size and layout of radiators etc.

for selecting an engine you want performance curves, fuel economu figures and you want to test response to different mapping.

The Ferrari engine responds well to different mapping, the Toyota is more sensitive which means they probably need to do some work on their valve train and internal gas flow.

I'd select the engine that gives me the best drivability for fuel consumption.
Lower consumption means I can carry less fuel.

refueling is banned next year

[axle]

Possibly this choice has something to do with financials?

Less than it used to. With a better position in the standings and reduced operating costs + the loss of Rosberg's wages I'd expect Williams to be able to pay for engines next year not go for a freebie.

The Toyota deal served a purpose whilst the company was being restructured.

[flynfrog]

coolant and oil temps are not that important...

whats important is time to rpm,
torque and power curves, etc

coolant and oil temp are moot because the engines used today are designed to be std, not bespoke, hence they have std performance curves with a std airbox. Oil temp is a specified figure and will determine heat exchanger size and layout of radiators etc.

for selecting an engine you want performance curves, fuel economu figures and you want to test response to different mapping.

The Ferrari engine responds well to different mapping, the Toyota is more sensitive which means they probably need to do some work on their valve train and internal gas flow.

I'd select the engine that gives me the best drivability for fuel consumption.
Lower consumption means I can carry less fuel.

refueling is banned next year

oil and coolant temps are very important. They affect the cooling inlet sizes on the car and the aero they distrupt.

[tarzoon]

If RBR drops Renault's engines, they will need another works team to help with the development. Considering the good results of Williams-Renault in the past, there may be a window of opportunity there. Besides, all in all, Renault may provide a better deal. Yet, there's no Flavio anymore to convince FIA and FOTA that they need to improve bits here and there once again.

Cosworth enging is a two edge knife. Although the development nowadays is pretty straightforward, reliability may pose issues. Besides, I don't know how trustworthy the guarantees that the engine will use less fuel are...

KERS may be abandoned from 2010. Although Williams is expecting to use it, they already had their issues with FOTA this year, so I don't know if that idea would weaken their position once again.