Flexiwings 2025

[chrisc90]

Mad that teams are getting away with this

[SirBastianVettel]

https://imgur.com/video-comparison-of-r ... 25-FIefANj

Video comparison between McLaren and Red Bull, don't know how to embed it as a video here.

[AR3-GP]

The Red Bull has a lower downforce rear wing, so it is expected that the wing will flex less. What really is interesting and more difficult to calculate is the stiffness value (potentially not constant) which relates the wing deflection to the aero load. (deflection) = (stiffness) x (aero load).

Despite this discrepancy, something seems off with the Mclaren wing. It appears to "curl" a lot. So it is not a simple vertical deflection of the wing body (for which the test are conducted), but instead a strong rotation of the angle of attack of the entire rear wing assembly. If the wing's deflection mode is a pure rotation, then a vertical pull down or horizontal pull back test will not activate this deflection mode.

[kptaylor]

The onboard of LEC's car in Japan showed a TREMENDOUS amount of front wing flex. Really not sure how they can be so creative with the materials and still pass the flex testing. Impressive.

[AR3-GP]

The FIA is aware of social media footage showing McLaren’s rear wing flexing at Formula 1's Japanese Grand Prix, but has not received any formal complaint from a team asking for it to be investigated.

Doesn't mean that anything will change, but it's certainly interesting to see how social media can be used. It's a bad look for the FIA to have a bunch of people (whether misguided or not) thinking that things are "unfair". This could pressure them to change the rules again.

[Emag]

It's funny that McLaren are the ones who are constantly under the crosshair, when Mercedes' rear wing has been shown to flex quite a bit more since pre season testing. I suppose Mercedes would have to actually be winning races for it to be considered relevant. Ferrari rear wing footage in China also displays comparable level of flexing with McLaren, yet nobody seems to really care, unless the ones who are doing it are taking points away from you.

This situation, for one reason or another, has slipped out of FIA's hand because (almost) all teams have found a way to get around their static load tests.
But things are not really unfair. Things only seem "unfair" from the perspective of one team, because they are the only one out of the 4 top teams who are not exploiting this.
They complained about something entirely unrelated and FIA acted with the China TD (which people here completely miss-interpreted, but anyway).
FIA also had already introduced "stricter" tests in Australia which were specifically targeted at this kind of flexing people are comparing now, which evidently did nothing to prevent it.

At this point it should be pretty clear that the tests have been proven to be a completely useless method of flagging designs that exhibit excessive amounts of flexing at >250 km/h.
Either the FIA doesn't care at all about this (which seems strange considering they didn't like it back in 2021 and they haven't had a different public stance since then), or they don't have a reliable way of testing against these flexible designs (which is also weird, because if the tests aren't cutting it, then just use sensors to measure deflection on track).

Basically, there is no scenario where FIA isn't to blame for this because they have failed at clarifying the situation.
RedBull has the right to complain, because they stand to gain most from this, however they should probably consider just joining the rest of the top teams in exploiting this at this point.
Complaining won't bring back the performance deficit of the already passed races and equally, for every race that goes on like this, they are at a disadvantage. I don't see this being clamped down on short notice with more than half the grid exhibiting excessive flexing at high speed.

[peewon]

It's funny that McLaren are the ones who are constantly under the crosshair, when Mercedes' rear wing has been shown to flex quite a bit more since pre season testing. I suppose Mercedes would have to actually be winning races for it to be considered relevant. Ferrari rear wing footage in China also displays comparable level of flexing with McLaren, yet nobody seems to really care, unless the ones who are doing it are taking points away from you.

This situation, for one reason or another, has slipped out of FIA's hand because (almost) all teams have found a way to get around their static load tests.
But things are not really unfair. Things only seem "unfair" from the perspective of one team, because they are the only one out of the 4 top teams who are not exploiting this.
They complained about something entirely unrelated and FIA acted with the China TD (which people here completely miss-interpreted, but anyway).
FIA also had already introduced "stricter" tests in Australia which were specifically targeted at this kind of flexing people are comparing now, which evidently did nothing to prevent it.

At this point it should be pretty clear that the tests have been proven to be a completely useless method of flagging designs that exhibit excessive amounts of flexing at >250 km/h.
Either the FIA doesn't care at all about this (which seems strange considering they didn't like it back in 2021 and they haven't had a different public stance since then), or they don't have a reliable way of testing against these flexible designs (which is also weird, because if the tests aren't cutting it, then just use sensors to measure deflection on track).

Basically, there is no scenario where FIA isn't to blame for this because they have failed at clarifying the situation.
RedBull has the right to complain, because they stand to gain most from this, however they should probably consider just joining the rest of the top teams in exploiting this at this point.
Complaining won't bring back the performance deficit of the already passed races and equally, for every race that goes on like this, they are at a disadvantage. I don't see this being clamped down on short notice with more than half the grid exhibiting excessive flexing at high speed.

I would say it's unfair in the sense that FIA has introduced stricter tests and TDs in the past for almost the exact same things on much shorter notice (2-3 races). And because RB was the target of those technical directives in the past.

But now FIA seems to be dragging its feet even allowing a teams an entire off season and more without major changes. Even the mini DRS problem required it blowing up on social media for the FIA to react even though teams like RB & Ferrari had been complaining for months.

So it seems like FIA can be super proactive or completely apathetic towards certain rule bends depending on who's doing them. That's the unfairness.

[Chuckjr]

Without that advantage come Spain it's game on for Max and Red Bull. That's a whopper of flex and he still beat them. Incredible.

[bluechris]

This is crazy and it's obvious from the results in the 1st races who is benefited more. FIA must stop this farce. In the videos it's more obvious what is happening.

[Emag]

Without that advantage come Spain it's game on for Max and Red Bull. That's a whopper of flex and he still beat them. Incredible. https://twitter.com/cytrusf1/status/190 ... _&ref_url=

This is why you should be careful where you get your information from. The TD in Barcelona has nothing to do with rear wings. This is a completely separate problem that FIA would need to act on independently of the Barcelona TD (if they decide to act on it).

The only thing that changes in Barcelona, is the limit on how much front wings will be allowed to flex on static load tests (from 15mm to 10mm). The way it will be measured will presumably also change, to avoid teams getting around them.

[Vanja #66]

That rage-bait video edit to magnify McLaren wing flex is what's wrong with the state of F1 fandom on social media today

[Quantum]

Without that advantage come Spain it's game on for Max and Red Bull. That's a whopper of flex and he still beat them. Incredible. https://twitter.com/cytrusf1/status/190 ... _&ref_url=

Why is the beam wing (and entire rear wing assembly)on the RB moving relative the body work, but the outlined graphic on the rear wing doesn't show the RW moving?

[TimW]

Without that advantage come Spain it's game on for Max and Red Bull. That's a whopper of flex and he still beat them. Incredible. https://twitter.com/cytrusf1/status/190 ... _&ref_url=

This is why you should be careful where you get your information from. The TD in Barcelona has nothing to do with rear wings. This is a completely separate problem that FIA would need to act on independently of the Barcelona TD (if they decide to act on it).

The only thing that changes in Barcelona, is the limit on how much front wings will be allowed to flex on static load tests (from 15mm to 10mm). The way it will be measured will presumably also change, to avoid teams getting around them.

Indeed, but a side effect may be that rear wing flex is not desirable anymore.
Front wing flex will shift the balance rearward in high speed corners. Rear wing flex will shift the balance forward. If they need to stiffen the front wing, they may be forced to also stiffen the rear wing to balance the car.

[Emag]

I would say it's unfair in the sense that FIA has introduced stricter tests and TDs in the past for almost the exact same things on much shorter notice (2-3 races). And because RB was the target of those technical directives in the past.

But now FIA seems to be dragging its feet even allowing a teams an entire off season and more without major changes. Even the mini DRS problem required it blowing up on social media for the FIA to react even though teams like RB & Ferrari had been complaining for months.

So it seems like FIA can be super proactive or completely apathetic towards certain rule bends depending on who's doing them. That's the unfairness.

2-3 races is not short notice though. 2-3 races are enough to dictate the results of both championships on a tight grid.

[AR3-GP]

That rage-bait video edit to magnify McLaren wing flex is what's wrong with the state of F1 fandom on social media today

What do you think is the effect of the beam wing appearing to bridge the gap to the diffuser exit? I'm of the opinion that it could meaningfully power up the diffuser at higher speeds when it flexes by closing down that gap to make a more seamless ramp which extends the diffuser. Mclaren is the best car in the highspeed corners.




It also does the same thing in the first sector.

Turn 3:


Turn 7 (ignore the typo):



I think Mclaren has taken their noodle-nomics to the next level, attempting to "seal" the gap between the beam wing and the diffuser in the high speed corners to increase the diffuser extraction, which powers up the floor just a bit more.