2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Fluido]

lewis is a great talent, but he is not a generational talent
is the most overrated driver ever, and he had an giant support from FIA and Mercedes/Ron Dennis since the begining,
he has always raced with rules for his own.
he is not alonso, he cant be at top level forever


If you put today Alonso and Hamilton in the same car, Alonso would destroy hamilton

Giant support from FIA??? What nonsense you are talking about?
Yes nice support in 2021.

Alonso teammate is Stroll, not Lecler, Russel or Rosberg. If they are Alonso team mates, they will beat him same like Rosberg beat Schumi. Of course young Alonso will beat them.

If Max come to Aston, you will see where is Alonso now.
Unfortunately I think that won't happen, but Newey is clever man, he knows that current drivers cant perform at top level, but I dont know if he has enough power to fix this problem.

[Fluido]

It's gonna take half a year for him to fully dial into the car.

Lewis was fast in his first F1 race in 2007, with grande Alonso, so dont believe in time adaptation, you are fast or you are not, Lewis is not fast enough last few years.

Yes maybe he can improve something, but he will be always slower then Lecler. Expected is for 8th world champion to be faster than teammate, so any result where his slower than teammate is bad result for him and for F1 comunity.

[SoulPancake13]

Lewis is almost 40 and this generation of car clearly doesn't suit him, it is what it is but I think we can agree that as of now, it was a mistake. Maybe he finds the pace, maybe he doesn't, we will have to wait and see. Miami will be an important test... although even without the high speed corners, I think right now Charles is very in tune with the car, it will be hard to beat him

[diffuser]

It's gonna take half a year for him to fully dial into the car.

Lewis was fast in his first F1 race in 2007, with grande Alonso, so dont believe in time adaptation, you are fast or you are not, Lewis is not fast enough last few years.

Yes maybe he can improve something, but he will be always slower then Lecler. Expected is for 8th world champion to be faster than teammate, so any result where his slower than teammate is bad result for him and for F1 comunity.

How much testing was he allowed to do in 2007.....Hamilton completed about 1011 laps at various tracks in the McLaren MP4-22 during pre-season testing. That's easily between 10 - 20 races.

Plus how would you, it was Alonso's first year there too. All we really know is the car was fast compared to the rest of F1 in 2007.

Sainz is struggling this year. Alonso struggled at Alpine.

[JPower]

It's gonna take half a year for him to fully dial into the car.

Lewis was fast in his first F1 race in 2007, with grande Alonso, so dont believe in time adaptation, you are fast or you are not, Lewis is not fast enough last few years.

Yes maybe he can improve something, but he will be always slower then Lecler. Expected is for 8th world champion to be faster than teammate, so any result where his slower than teammate is bad result for him and for F1 comunity.

How much testing was he allowed to do in 2007.....Hamilton completed about 1011 laps at various tracks in the McLaren MP4-22 during pre-season testing. That's easily between 10 - 20 races.

Plus how would you, it was Alonso's first year there too. All we really know is the car was fast compared to the rest of F1 in 2007.

Sainz is struggling this year. Alonso struggled at Alpine.

Alonso was coming back from 2 years out of F1 and Sainz is making pretty quick progress now.

Regardless, Ferraris have been hard to drive across the hybrid era in various ways, and the GE cars doubly so. Couple that with Hamilton's age and driving style mismatch with this reg set, and yeah, we might be looking at a longer adaption period than most people expected.

[ringo]

It's early days. The real objective is 2026.
The sf25 was problematic from day 1. From that we see the mission to be chapion was over.
Hamilton runs well when the car can win.
He can eventually learn the SF25 but he will need time. The simulator is something he will need to use a lot. He has no more testing days.

He has always been slowish to learn from watching over the years.
The challenge could be the increase in information and adjustments that he has to make. If he can even get to a 2023 level it would be enough to have a respectible performance.
2026 is a different car. It may well suit him more. So the Ferrari move is not a failure. 2026 may well be where things click.
This season is also not over. He's clearly not understanding something and would need to parse though Charle's video and data.

[bananapeel23]

From what LEC was saying in the interviews it seems like they are betting on the new technical directive helping them close the gap, which is basically what Horner has been saying for months. McLaren don't seem very worried about the new front wings so I feel like they have that covered, but we shall see.

Mclaren were adamant the updated RW flexing restrictions would not impact them but (as far as I know) they have lost a step in their straight line speed (https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/4432 ... er-mclaren). Piastri is the only one telling the truth at McL and I think that is just good mental pressure he is applying to Lando. I think all teams will say it doesn't impact them, the only truth will be the lap time.

The strange thing is, that Merc seem to be as big of culprits for the noodle wings but George was talking at some point in the last two weekend (looked through F1 and sky interviews but can't find it) about how the Spain TD will change the order, as if it will help Merc, so who really knows what to expect.

One would imagine, TD018 will impact front end DF, so I wonder will Ferrari have to bring a new floor to rebalance the car. It makes me less optimistic that the Imola package will be anything large. If the ride height issue is a thing, and they can fix that at Imola through some rear suspension or other non floor update it might make sense, but with the potential shift in Spain, you'd think Ferrari would just hold until then to also include the TD018 impact.

Anyway, Miami is probably going to be similar to Bahrain. Charles has already been clear that he has the cars sweet spot so we aren't getting any more performance through that. So most likely battling for P3-P5 with Max and George.

McLaren hasn't lost anything in straight line speed, they've always been bad in that area compared to the others ever since 2023 actually. The TD changed nothing about it.

Everyone is banking in on that Spain TD changing the pecking order, but it will all depend on how the teams respond. Everyone will be affected. People are assuming it will hurt McLaren the most, but that is not a guarantee. Nobody apart from the teams themselves know how impactful it will be for their respectful cars. Now, everyone from McLaren, including Andrea, have been quite nonchalant about it. Whether they actually think it won't do much to their performance or are just playing "the cool game", we will just have to wait and see.

McLaren were briefly incredibly fasd ton the straights. Particularly in Baku 2024 where their flexible wings were so effective that Leclerc was barely faster than Piastri despite DRS and a tow. I'm also pretty sure Ferrari ran an unusually small wing in Baku and still couldn't catch Piastri down the straight.

So to say that the McLaren was always slow in a straight line isn't quite true. The 2022, 2023 and early 2024 cars were bricks, but from about Miami 2024 until now they've been pretty consistently quick down the straights. The rear wing "mini DRS" ban in late 2024 slowed them down a bit, but they were still quick.

[JPower]

It's early days. The real objective is 2026.

I don't agree with this. The point of revamping the SF-24 and bringing on Hamilton was to target the WCC(and possibly WDC) this year, especially after being so close in 2024.

[Space-heat]

From what LEC was saying in the interviews it seems like they are betting on the new technical directive helping them close the gap, which is basically what Horner has been saying for months. McLaren don't seem very worried about the new front wings so I feel like they have that covered, but we shall see.

Mclaren were adamant the updated RW flexing restrictions would not impact them but (as far as I know) they have lost a step in their straight line speed (https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/4432 ... er-mclaren). Piastri is the only one telling the truth at McL and I think that is just good mental pressure he is applying to Lando. I think all teams will say it doesn't impact them, the only truth will be the lap time.

The strange thing is, that Merc seem to be as big of culprits for the noodle wings but George was talking at some point in the last two weekend (looked through F1 and sky interviews but can't find it) about how the Spain TD will change the order, as if it will help Merc, so who really knows what to expect.

One would imagine, TD018 will impact front end DF, so I wonder will Ferrari have to bring a new floor to rebalance the car. It makes me less optimistic that the Imola package will be anything large. If the ride height issue is a thing, and they can fix that at Imola through some rear suspension or other non floor update it might make sense, but with the potential shift in Spain, you'd think Ferrari would just hold until then to also include the TD018 impact.

Anyway, Miami is probably going to be similar to Bahrain. Charles has already been clear that he has the cars sweet spot so we aren't getting any more performance through that. So most likely battling for P3-P5 with Max and George.

McLaren hasn't lost anything in straight line speed, they've always been bad in that area compared to the others ever since 2023 actually. The TD changed nothing about it.

Everyone is banking in on that Spain TD changing the pecking order, but it will all depend on how the teams respond. Everyone will be affected. People are assuming it will hurt McLaren the most, but that is not a guarantee. Nobody apart from the teams themselves know how impactful it will be for their respectful cars. Now, everyone from McLaren, including Andrea, have been quite nonchalant about it. Whether they actually think it won't do much to their performance or are just playing "the cool game", we will just have to wait and see.

I agree up until the mid of last year. They seem to have been quick since after their Imola update, peaking at Baku and they were on par in Australia in the opening round this year. Maybe it is a stretch (and a small sample size) but the media speculation heavily implied that McL were the most impacted.

[Emag]

McLaren were briefly incredibly fasd ton the straights. Particularly in Baku 2024 where their flexible wings were so effective that Leclerc was barely faster than Piastri despite DRS and a tow. I'm also pretty sure Ferrari ran an unusually small wing in Baku and still couldn't catch Piastri down the straight.

So to say that the McLaren was always slow in a straight line isn't quite true. The 2022, 2023 and early 2024 cars were bricks, but from about Miami 2024 until now they've been pretty consistently quick down the straights. The rear wing "mini DRS" ban in late 2024 slowed them down a bit, but they were still quick.

Oh come on man, now you're just making things up. McLaren had a really low-load beam wing configuration for Baku, so on top of the mini DRS, it was obvious they were going to be fast without DRS. Still, even with all that, they weren't setting any impressive non drs speedtraps. Oscar was most of the time slower by 1-3 kmh compared to Russell non-drs speedtraps during the race.

Even on races they dominated last year, McLaren was consistently in the bottom half of the top speed numbers.

[Alonsismo]

It's gonna take half a year for him to fully dial into the car.

Lewis was fast in his first F1 race in 2007, with grande Alonso, so dont believe in time adaptation, you are fast or you are not, Lewis is not fast enough last few years.

Yes maybe he can improve something, but he will be always slower then Lecler. Expected is for 8th world champion to be faster than teammate, so any result where his slower than teammate is bad result for him and for F1 comunity.

How much testing was he allowed to do in 2007.....Hamilton completed about 1011 laps at various tracks in the McLaren MP4-22 during pre-season testing. That's easily between 10 - 20 races.

Plus how would you, it was Alonso's first year there too. All we really know is the car was fast compared to the rest of F1 in 2007.

Sainz is struggling this year. Alonso struggled at Alpine.

Alonso struggled at alpine but he was recovering from a very big bike crash, take that into consideration

[ringo]

It's early days. The real objective is 2026.

I don't agree with this. The point of revamping the SF-24 and bringing on Hamilton was to target the WCC(and possibly WDC) this year, especially after being so close in 2024.

That was very ambitious from Ferrari. McLaren finished the stongest last year with RedBull sorting out their rear instability issue. Max's Brazil drive alone was sign enough that SF24 wasnt the strongest car and would need a quantum leap to be the best car in 2025.
After winter testing it was clear that 2025 was not going to be their year. Fred himself hinted that a switch to 2026 would happen if they see that the challenge would be too great for 2025.

It would make sense for Lewis and Charles to just focus on refining the characteristics of the Ferrari creations and apply that to SF26.

The truth is a car that Lewis finds balanced usually storms to a win, even its not dominant.
We can look on Silverstone, Spa, Las Vegas for examples last year. Getting the car to that feel would benefit both drivers and actually give Charles less work to. It might help Lewis more, but it will benefit more.
What I agree with is Lewis is speaking his mind too much like Norris is. It doesnt help the situation when they do that. It's good for them psychologically to reset, but not for team morale.

[JPower]

That was very ambitious from Ferrari. McLaren finished the stongest last year with RedBull sorting out their rear instability issue. Max's Brazil drive alone was sign enough that SF24 wasnt the strongest car and would need a quantum leap to be the best car in 2025.
After winter testing it was clear that 2025 was not going to be their year. Fred himself hinted that a switch to 2026 would happen if they see that the challenge would be too great for 2025.

I don't see what that has to do with Ferrari's estimations. They finished 2 points away from winning the WCC with a botched upgrade in the middle of the season. Most people here and on team were confident Ferrari could match or beat McLaren over the offseason.

There's no sign that they've switched to 2026. Quite the opposite as they seem to be more aggressive with scheduled upgrades than any other team right now.

The goal was to win this season. Hamilton is on the clock. At 40, he doesn't have time to say "just wait until next year". Athletes past 37-38 are prone to just "lose" abilities almost overnight(and that might've already happened to Hamilton's qualifying pace) and every year past that the risk becomes even higher.

[ringo]

Point taken but remember 2024 2nd place was only because the RB20 did not suit Perez who was woeful.
Sainz also crashed out Perez in Baku.
Ferrari's history is also tells you they were never going to make the biggest leap.
The times of Alonso in Ferrari they were close but nowhere. The times of Vettel and Binotto they were at the front but because of the rocket thruster engine.
With the tighter engine regs, I didn't see them making the best chassis and aero.
I am surpised they were worse than Mercedes however. That much I can say was unexpected.
They did look like staying ahead of Mercedes, but not bettering redbull.

Agreed on the age issue. Hulkenberg is already suffering there.
Alonso is getting mugged by Lawson, Hadjar, Bearman and Bortoletto away from the spotlight.
It's not looking good for the old guys.

The confusing thing about Lewis is the China sprint. Also his abu dhabi performance, las vegas and his wins last year.
He can drive fast. But maybe there is some fear factor with the Ferrari or some kind of brain teaser that he cannot wrap his head around.

When he joined Mercedes he was not doing well against Rosberg at the begining because of the brakes. I think the brembos had to change to carbon industries.
At Ferrari, the brembos are back and with engine braking, his confusion is further compounded.
I dont know if Ferrari want to bend over too much for him, but they can give him a set of unmarked CI brakes and see if things improve.

The engine braking I would like to know more about this from anyone with knowledge on how the retardation of the engine affects the handling. In the V8 days the engine could "push" the car in the corners. I am not sure about rhe hybrid PU.

[deadhead]

Thoughts on TD018 helping HAM get closer to LEC? Or rather, LEC loosing speed because of the potential weaker front end

Ferrari also denied the 2022 floor changes would affect them in any way.
The car went from a Red Bull match(in pure speed) to behind Mercedes at times, Max didn't see a challenge for 2.5 years.

True.

To me the 2022 TD sounds more impactful than TD018 but I guess we will find out.