2025 McLaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

Nor do I have an issue with the word dominant, just with the large inflation of the pace of the car vs reality, with this false pace labelled as dominant pace. Facts show the car is pushed hard more often than not. But we have dominated the results.

That video and the subsequent conversation leaned heavily on the idea that the Mclaren leaves everyone for dead in races. It's nonsense.

Whether the secret is just in the ducts or if there are other things in play, common sense shows you the front of the car behaves differently in a way not explained by aero or tyre heat, so it seems obvious there are other mechanical changes at play that will also be a large part of the tyre heating solution and front turn in ability. Particularly if the car is able to put less heat into the tyres due to the way the tyres are interacting with the track. This is clear. There is a comprehensive solution at the front. And that solution is flawed in certain conditions or situations, it appears.

No one knows yet what they have done though. It's opinion being pushed as fact.

Again.

[bauc]

[FittingMechanics]

I'm waiting for a normal hot race. Let's see what the car can do.

[AR3-GP]

AR3GP. You can't ignore the details that don't support you. We did a better job of getting the most out of the car in Q3 Australia, banker lap or not. Ultimately you seem to want to ignore context and Marvel at that one gap like it represents the cars potential at every race, when it's not even representative of the real pace gap at Australia Q3.

You are correct that it wasn't representative. They only had 1 run at the end because they messed up their bankers. Their final laps were the bankers which means they had to be more conservative than when you have a good time on the board already. The gap should have been 5-6 tenths there. Both Verstappen and Russell improved on their 2nd runs. You can't fault them for that. The Mclaren drivers simply benefitted from a significantly better car that weekend. There's no indication that the drivers themselves fully maximized (other than on paper), but certainly Peter, Andrea, and Rob did a better job than anyone else that weekend.

The car was then fantastic on the inters. But when forced to push on a wet track with dry tyres, both drivers struggled to control a car they both described as difficult to drive. One got damage and the race was not far from being lost. It's the reality of driving that Mclaren when pushed.

Or they made mistakes pushing in the wet. This can happen. It happened last year in Brazil (Norris) and it happened last year in Silverstone (Pia).

Both drivers experienced difficulties here and elsewhere, one driver is better at managing it by not pushing the car as hard as the other.

We don't have any way to know why Piastri does what he does. It is equally likely that he is simply less sensitive to the balance at the limit. If you insist that Norris has this hidden pace advantage which we have yet to see, then it just further supports Mclaren's dominance being wasted by a driver making mistakes with the car. There is a possibility that other drivers could have showed more of the Mclaren's potential despite the claims of difficulty in driving the car. If you insist that Norris is faster and it's just an inability to deal with the difficulty at the limit, then this scenario is possible imo. The Ferrari and the Red Bull have also been described as difficult to drive. A 7x WDC is nowhere, and 2nd RB driver has been nowhere for ages.

[mwillems]

As well as my opinion from what I can see on track, it's a stated opinion of Stella.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-l ... grand-prix

Detailing the events of the crash after the session, McLaren team boss Andrea Stella explained that it’s clear to see in the data when ‘episodes’ occur when the car is being pushed to its limit.

“But I think in Q3, when Lando tries to squeeze a few more milliseconds out of the car, what we see – and I think we are starting to see these even better in the data in terms of identification of what is going on – the car doesn’t respond as he expects.

“So I think this is a behaviour that kind of surprises him. Today, it surprised him. The car understeered a bit in Turn 4 and he ended up on the outside kerb, and this outside kerb can be quite unforgiving.

“In a way, it’s almost episodical. What’s happening is an episode, and it’s an episode that I think starts from some of the work that we have done on the car – it made the car faster overall, but I think it took something away from Lando in terms of predictability of the car once he pushes the car at the limit.”


Earlier in the season I also though the car was a beast and that the car was the star and that the drivers were not performing as they should, but it feels quite obvious that it is a mix of the two.

There are also statements from Oscar and Lando saying that the gap at Australia was exaggerated because they managed to get laps in that extracted the most from the car. You'll recall that statement made a splash as Lando phrased it as the only two good drivers on the grid, or something similar . Looking back, I can see the big jump from Q2 to Q3 and I can see that Russell clearly left time on the table. At the time I thought this was deflection, now I realise there's a strong possibility this is the case. There is no evidence that Mclaren left anything on the table though they might have, but it's clear that others did.

They did both make mistakes in the wet at Australia, but the team and both the drivers talk about how much of a struggle this car is. it is evident in the increased number and severity of struggles the drivers are experiencing so far this season. This is clearly part of the cars gift and it's clear that it is a strong candidate for the cause of the issues, especially when running in the wet on dry tyres, when they struggled along with others drivers. The damage and the loss of time were unfortunate.

[AR3-GP]

As well as my opinion from what I can see on track, it's a stated opinion of Stella.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-l ... grand-prix

Detailing the events of the crash after the session, McLaren team boss Andrea Stella explained that it’s clear to see in the data when ‘episodes’ occur when the car is being pushed to its limit.

“But I think in Q3, when Lando tries to squeeze a few more milliseconds out of the car, what we see – and I think we are starting to see these even better in the data in terms of identification of what is going on – the car doesn’t respond as he expects.

“So I think this is a behaviour that kind of surprises him. Today, it surprised him. The car understeered a bit in Turn 4 and he ended up on the outside kerb, and this outside kerb can be quite unforgiving.

“In a way, it’s almost episodical. What’s happening is an episode, and it’s an episode that I think starts from some of the work that we have done on the car – it made the car faster overall, but I think it took something away from Lando in terms of predictability of the car once he pushes the car at the limit.”


Earlier in the season I also though the car was a beast and that the car was the star and that the drivers were not performing as they should, but it feels quite obvious that it is a mix of the two.

They did both make mistakes in the wet at Australia, but the team and both the drivers talk about how much of a struggle this car is. it is evident in the increased number and severity of struggles the drivers are experiencing so far this season. This is clearly part of the cars gift and it's clear that it is a strong candidate for the cause of the issues, especially when running in the wet on dry tyres, when they struggled along with others drivers. The damage and the loss of time were unfortunate.

Do you think Mclaren have gone down the Red Bull path, chasing numbers over real world driveability?

[mwillems]

Not intentionally, but i think what they've done at the front is more than ducts and has created a problem that is reminiscent of the Daniel Ricciardo days, although back then the car offered little feedback in many situations. Initially I thought it was just trail braking, but it seems the general issue is that there is no warning of a loss of grip. Grip doesn't gradually go, it just dissapears like you are on a knife edge. This is my own anecdotal observation.

This is why Lando seems to have the edge on Piastri in race pace as the car isnt anywhere near the edge.

Time will tell, but this issue won't go away soon, and I don't want the focus to be on making the car better for one driver.

But don't get me wrong, I expect Lando to get more from it, it's clear that if you don't get greedy it has the pace to edge out other teams regularly and he needs to do a better job of choosing how and when to push this car.

[bluechris]

Not intentionally, but i think what they've done at the front is more than ducts and has created a problem that is reminiscent of the Daniel Ricciardo days, although back then the car offered little feedback in many situations. Initially I thought it was just trail braking, but it seems the general issue is that there is no warning of a loss of grip. Grip doesn't gradually go, it just dissapears like you are on a knife edge. This is my own anecdotal observation.

This is why Lando seems to have the edge on Piastri in race pace as the car isnt anywhere near the edge.

Time will tell, but this issue won't go away soon, and I don't want the focus to be on making the car better for one driver.

But don't get me wrong, I expect Lando to get more from it, it's clear that if you don't get greedy it has the pace to edge out other teams regularly and he needs to do a better job of choosing how and when to push this car.

Its a risk vs reward situation... the gold line is not to over do it and this is where Lando some times is at fault. I hope he learned his lesson and he will move on from this.

[basti313]

Grip doesn't gradually go, it just dissapears like you are on a knife edge. This is my own anecdotal observation.

This is intrinsic to this generation of cars. Every team has this, every driver fights this.

[Farnborough]

Impressive in my view, is that Lando did gather that one up .... the entry to turn four .... to just run out of room and trajectory on the left in consequence of that.

He's impressively fast, and good to watch. But as noted above, understanding just when that risk maybe too far is significant and particularly this year.

In the dry, he's a match in pure pace for most, something that I appluad is to show that to us spectators

I think we can all see he definitely has the capacity to get that WDC this year, a golden opportunity of circumstances that doesn't often stack up.

I'd rather see it fought out with some real driving flare from all those in contention to be honest. Theres risk, for sure, but a championship decided like this makes for a memorable one.

MV dropped it in SA Q too in a championship year

These are races to look forward to, hope LH doesn't take cautious approach, there's risk in that too.

[mwillems]

Grip doesn't gradually go, it just dissapears like you are on a knife edge. This is my own anecdotal observation.

This is intrinsic to this generation of cars. Every team has this, every driver fights this.

But it is also scaled depending on the car. I was ready to suggest that Lando was tbe sole issue. It seems to be getting clearer this isn't the case.

[mwillems]

Impressive in my view, is that Lando did gather that one up .... the entry to turn four .... to just run out of room and trajectory on the left in consequence of that.

He's impressively fast, and good to watch. But as noted above, understanding just when that risk maybe too far is significant and particularly this year.

In the dry, he's a match in pure pace for most, something that I appluad is to show that to us spectators

I think we can all see he definitely has the capacity to get that WDC this year, a golden opportunity of circumstances that doesn't often stack up.

I'd rather see it fought out with some real driving flare from all those in contention to be honest. Theres risk, for sure, but a championship decided like this makes for a memorable one.

MV dropped it in SA Q too in a championship year

These are races to look forward to, hope LH doesn't take cautious approach, there's risk in that too.

And in the race start. All drivers make mistakes, even.one of the best to ever grace the sport.

It's going to be an exciting year. Mclaren are well placed, but the drivers, designers and engineers will need to deliver with more than one eye on 26.

[AR3-GP]

Not intentionally,

It never is.

but i think what they've done at the front is more than ducts and has created a problem that is reminiscent of the Daniel Ricciardo days, although back then the car offered little feedback in many situations. Initially I thought it was just trail braking, but it seems the general issue is that there is no warning of a loss of grip. Grip doesn't gradually go, it just dissapears like you are on a knife edge. This is my own anecdotal observation.

Daniel Ricciardo days? Serious?

[De Wet]

Hope Lando wins this weekend. It will be his first double win of the same GP.

[mwillems]

Not intentionally,

It never is.

but i think what they've done at the front is more than ducts and has created a problem that is reminiscent of the Daniel Ricciardo days, although back then the car offered little feedback in many situations. Initially I thought it was just trail braking, but it seems the general issue is that there is no warning of a loss of grip. Grip doesn't gradually go, it just dissapears like you are on a knife edge. This is my own anecdotal observation.

Daniel Ricciardo days? Serious?

There is some irony in Landos struggles and that his complaints, like Daniels, that the car isn't giving him feedback, but yeah It's not the same scale

As far as RB are concerned, that was a year long descent. Mclaren seem to intent to make it easier to extract the peaks. We'll see i guess, we have our opinions but mine is that the cars are close and it's going to be a long year..