2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

Was doing a comparison of two last two Q3 laps of VER. Relative to the first lap, we know there's probably about a tenth left to be gained just via fuel loads going down. So I was thinking if we can see how much Max gains elsewhere.

https://i.imgur.com/yDm6yHd.png

Actually it seems Max loses 1.5 tenths because of the wobble but he exactly compensates for it with a perfect T7-T8 onto the first long straight - this puts him a few thousandths ahead coming out of S1.

Then, in S2 he carries a lot more risk through the slow speed, and gains roughly 2.5 tenths on himself before the last straight, and by braking a little later and taking a bit more risk, he gains another half a tenth at the last corner making the final gap 3 tenths. As said before, I would attribute 1 tenth to just fuel loads. So he gains 2 tenths with that wobble.

I think with a perfect lap, Max could have actually gained 4 tenths over his previous lap all things considered. Quite remarkable -- a 1.26.1 was definitely on the cards, maybe even a 1.26.0!

Let me add the icing on this cake - compare the two for when the DRS comes on - in the faster lap he turns on the DRS a few meters too late. So probably a few thousands to be gained there as well.

[venkyhere]

well well, that's all good, now are you ready to see Lando divebombs and Max ends up 3-4 in T1 ?

I have already given up any hope regarding the race. McLaren clearly start much better than us this year. Maybe we don't get overtaken by Kimi and we can fight for P2 optimistically. Clean air is king will probably be also true in the race .

In Jeddah, Max wasnt doing his usual 'pointing at the inside of T1' stance in the grid box before the start lights went out. And it cost him the start. I have never seen him forget to do the 'skewed pointing' when he is on the front row, for as far back as I can remember. Hope the same mistake isn't repeated.

[Cassius]

well well, that's all good, now are you ready to see Lando divebombs and Max ends up 3-4 in T1 ?

I have already given up any hope regarding the race. McLaren clearly start much better than us this year. Maybe we don't get overtaken by Kimi and we can fight for P2 optimistically. Clean air is king will probably be also true in the race .

In Jeddah, Max wasnt doing his usual 'pointing at the inside of T1' stance in the grid box before the start lights went out. And it cost him the start. I have never seen him forget to do the 'skewed pointing' when he is on the front row, for as far back as I can remember. Hope the same mistake isn't repeated.

I don't think that would have made a difference. Piastri's start was just better.

[Cassius]

I HOPE THEY DONT CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE CAR FOR THE REST OF THE WEEKEND, it's capable of pole.

Guess what, they did change the car (i guess more front flap) but didn't lose anything in sector1. Max was steadily gaining one/one-n-half tenth in sector1 with every single quali lap he did. I found that amazing, even on the final Q3 lap with the mistake in turn1.
Howevever, what shocked me most was nearly ~0.3 that he found in sector2 (still 0.1 slower than mclarens) only in final Q3 run, thanks to the front flap adjust, perhaps.
Before Max haters pounce on this post, let me say : yes, the car was capable, but it takes a special driver to exrtract nearly 100% from the theoreical limit from a car, and such 'jaw dropper' pole laps from max in 2025 are not a surprise anymore. Out of 6 weekends so far Max has 3 poles, with a clearly inferior car than the mclaren.
It's sad that for this race, it will be impossible to defend in the straights due to lack of acceleration from some engine gremlin (i am not ready to believe its drag related, since vmax at end of straights isn't far off) .

There is no engine gremlin. To protect the tyres they went with more rear df. In qualy they can still achieve similar vmax as RB has strong DRS effect.

It is actually similar to Jeddah. In qualy still competitive on straights, in race he lost to Piastri in s3 but gained in the slower first sector.

[Cassius]

When Mercedes had their old engines in Jeddah, they were not dropping all this laptime on the straights. So does that mean Honda has huge degradation?

I think there's something more going on. Why would Honda request to use the old engine here when Imola and Monaco are the next rounds?

The Honda pu 2021 loses about 7hp over the corse of its life thats why they didnt do a spicy pu like Mercedes when they were fighting hard for that champ so unless the are cutting corners a new pu does not make that difference.these narrative is bs max put it on pole so engine talk is was deflection in case upgrades dont work.

We are not in 2021 anymore, everyone is pushing their 2022 base package to the limit. There’s a reason Honda chooses “power tracks” like Saudi, Spa and Monza to run fresh engines. There’s a reason they “sandbag” in FP, there’s a reason they avoided running the fresh engine on a sprint. It all points to wear that affect performance.

Guys, 5 pages of suggestive comments on engine gremlins, wear. It is just a df drag issue combined with a few hp extra for Merc.

Past statements mentioned less power degradation on Honda engines vs Merc.

What the past also showed is that Honda engines have always been less durable. Often they needed at least 1 more engine vs allocation. That is why they are so conservative in fps.

[f1isgood]

The Honda pu 2021 loses about 7hp over the corse of its life thats why they didnt do a spicy pu like Mercedes when they were fighting hard for that champ so unless the are cutting corners a new pu does not make that difference.these narrative is bs max put it on pole so engine talk is was deflection in case upgrades dont work.

We are not in 2021 anymore, everyone is pushing their 2022 base package to the limit. There’s a reason Honda chooses “power tracks” like Saudi, Spa and Monza to run fresh engines. There’s a reason they “sandbag” in FP, there’s a reason they avoided running the fresh engine on a sprint. It all points to wear that affect performance.

Guys, 5 pages of suggestive comments on engine gremlins, wear. It is just a df drag issue combined with a few hp extra for Merc.

Past statements mentioned less power degradation on Honda engines vs Merc.

What the past also showed is that Honda engines have always been less durable. Often they needed at least 1 more engine vs allocation. That is why they are so conservative in fps.

Yeah these seems about right. Honda was less durable in that Red Bull needed more engines but Honda didn't gain or lose much with a newer engine relative to other teams as well. Their power output was consistent more or less but they lasted overall fewer races.

And yeah, it was just a combination of running more downforce, and others having a newer engine that makes the deficit look larger than usual. It'll restore itself in the next race or so.

[f1isgood]

Was doing a comparison of two last two Q3 laps of VER. Relative to the first lap, we know there's probably about a tenth left to be gained just via fuel loads going down. So I was thinking if we can see how much Max gains elsewhere.

https://i.imgur.com/yDm6yHd.png

Actually it seems Max loses 1.5 tenths because of the wobble but he exactly compensates for it with a perfect T7-T8 onto the first long straight - this puts him a few thousandths ahead coming out of S1.

Then, in S2 he carries a lot more risk through the slow speed, and gains roughly 2.5 tenths on himself before the last straight, and by braking a little later and taking a bit more risk, he gains another half a tenth at the last corner making the final gap 3 tenths. As said before, I would attribute 1 tenth to just fuel loads. So he gains 2 tenths with that wobble.

I think with a perfect lap, Max could have actually gained 4 tenths over his previous lap all things considered. Quite remarkable -- a 1.26.1 was definitely on the cards, maybe even a 1.26.0!

Let me add the icing on this cake - compare the two for when the DRS comes on - in the faster lap he turns on the DRS a few meters too late. So probably a few thousands to be gained there as well.

Nice catch on the back straight.

[f1isgood]

well well, that's all good, now are you ready to see Lando divebombs and Max ends up 3-4 in T1 ?

I have already given up any hope regarding the race. McLaren clearly start much better than us this year. Maybe we don't get overtaken by Kimi and we can fight for P2 optimistically. Clean air is king will probably be also true in the race .

Max has had two bad launches this year, Bahrain and Saudi. The remaining 5 have been on par with McLaren (or better in Australia). And it's really Oscar that has had the good starts recently.

I thought China was also bad wrt start. Let's see. I am not so sure with the current rules of engagement. I was fine with inside driver pushing the other guy out if the guy on the inside was ahead at the apex but this new rule is diabolic. It doesn't even need this. Just make it look like you are only alongside and the corner is yours.

[Cs98]

The Honda pu 2021 loses about 7hp over the corse of its life thats why they didnt do a spicy pu like Mercedes when they were fighting hard for that champ so unless the are cutting corners a new pu does not make that difference.these narrative is bs max put it on pole so engine talk is was deflection in case upgrades dont work.

We are not in 2021 anymore, everyone is pushing their 2022 base package to the limit. There’s a reason Honda chooses “power tracks” like Saudi, Spa and Monza to run fresh engines. There’s a reason they “sandbag” in FP, there’s a reason they avoided running the fresh engine on a sprint. It all points to wear that affect performance.

Guys, 5 pages of suggestive comments on engine gremlins, wear. It is just a df drag issue combined with a few hp extra for Merc.

Past statements mentioned less power degradation on Honda engines vs Merc.

What the past also showed is that Honda engines have always been less durable. Often they needed at least 1 more engine vs allocation. That is why they are so conservative in fps.

"Less durable" = more degradation. Engines rarely run at full performance and then just blow up. You have degradation (physical wear inside the engine) that leads to reduced power and reliability. In 2021 the roles were reversed.

[Cs98]

I have already given up any hope regarding the race. McLaren clearly start much better than us this year. Maybe we don't get overtaken by Kimi and we can fight for P2 optimistically. Clean air is king will probably be also true in the race .

Max has had two bad launches this year, Bahrain and Saudi. The remaining 5 have been on par with McLaren (or better in Australia). And it's really Oscar that has had the good starts recently.

I thought China was also bad wrt start. Let's see. I am not so sure with the current rules of engagement. I was fine with inside driver pushing the other guy out if the guy on the inside was ahead at the apex but this new rule is diabolic. It doesn't even need this. Just make it look like you are only alongside and the corner is yours.

It was an okay launch, positions were lost because of a snap in the first corner.

[venkyhere]

Nice catch on the back straight.

Not the back straight, I was referring to the final DRS 'on' at the end of lap towards finish line.

[langedweil]

What else to say? VERGOD as someone else said it.

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When those syllables are switched it sounds a lot more dutch ..

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Indeed, but you will get a penalty/huge fine for that!

I reckon MBS won't know ...

[AR3-GP]

I don't think there's going to be a race today. All that work wasted and that sprint will be the only point scoring event...

[CjC]

I don't think there's going to be a race today. All that work wasted and that sprint will be the only point scoring event...

They’ll toot around behind the safety car so it can be classified as a ‘race’ the hand out half points- that’s a massive win for Max

[Sergej]

I don't think there's going to be a race today. All that work wasted and that sprint will be the only point scoring event...

They’ll toot around behind the safety car so it can be classified as a ‘race’ the hand out half points- that’s a massive win for Max

you need at least 2 green flag laps for points to be awarded, and it's not happening with these conditions

let's see if it improves...