2025 McLaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

Really good spot, thanks for posting.

Only thing that sticks in my mind is that it wasn't a sudden loss of rear that you see in the laptimes, it grew over 3 laps. So i'm wondering if that was part of it, or perhaps that as a result, he wasn't able to use the rear as much and so he started to lose tyre temps, hence he wasn't looking for wet patches to try and keep them up. Double whammy.

I'm unsure of why he wasn't searching for the wet patches. Maybe he didn't want to give Lando a tow? There can be many explanations. As for the rear wing, it wouldn't kill the entire rear, but it would be a little be less load in my opinion. So that could just be felt by the driver and lead to slower laps.

I confused that Mclaren had not mentioned anything about the tear off. I don't think they were aware of it. It wasn't removed at the pitstop.

Nope, seems like you've got a scoop, no one else has mentioned it. Did you see it on video or posted elsewhere?

Re: tow. Not sure, you'd think Lando would go for the tow over cooling tyres, but then he was in dirty air so perhaps this was why, and contributed potentially to his inter-slicks.

[mwillems]

Analysis of both Piastri and Norris's laps compared to Verstappen's reveals more evidence of a core characteristic that we have seen of the McLaren being difficult to master in heavy braking zones."[/i]

I agree with this being the main limitation of the current Mclaren. Heavy brake zones. This is not surprising when you look at the front suspension geometry. When Red Bull was the leader in unorthodox from arm angles, they were the worse than Ferrari in the big brake zones. Remember that Las Vegas race in 2023 when Perez lost to Leclerc on the last lap. Perez is not stupid. They just were very poor in big brake zones and had to brake earlier.

Need to keep a closer eye, but I think the lock ups are on turn in, in the main, which suggests yeah heavy braking, but trail braking. Might be mistaken though, it's just my anecdotal observations. Turn one is that sort of turn, as were the corners in China where we had issues, for instance.

By and large, these are the only types of issue we are having regularly. Turn 17 yesterday was pure mistake though, in my view.

[AR3-GP]

Analysis of both Piastri and Norris's laps compared to Verstappen's reveals more evidence of a core characteristic that we have seen of the McLaren being difficult to master in heavy braking zones."[/i]

I agree with this being the main limitation of the current Mclaren. Heavy brake zones. This is not surprising when you look at the front suspension geometry. When Red Bull was the leader in unorthodox from arm angles, they were the worse than Ferrari in the big brake zones. Remember that Las Vegas race in 2023 when Perez lost to Leclerc on the last lap. Perez is not stupid. They just were very poor in big brake zones and had to brake earlier.

Need to keep a closer eye, but I think the lock ups are on turn in, in the main, which suggests yeah heavy braking, but trail braking. Might be mistaken though, it's just my anecdotal observations. Turn one is that sort of turn, as were the corners in China where we had issues, for instance.

Yes the drivers are always still braking some when they are starting to turn in. You need to overlap the steering and the braking to be fastest in a corner entry. If the front end is too stiff, it will unload the inside wheel more and more than others causing lock up. Mclaren drivers have to use a longer brake zone because you can't overlap the steering as much.

The counterside to this is that Mclaren's traction is really dramatic. So the car was designed with the overall laptime potential in mind even if relatively weaker in 1 area.

[mwillems]

I agree with this being the main limitation of the current Mclaren. Heavy brake zones. This is not surprising when you look at the front suspension geometry. When Red Bull was the leader in unorthodox from arm angles, they were the worse than Ferrari in the big brake zones. Remember that Las Vegas race in 2023 when Perez lost to Leclerc on the last lap. Perez is not stupid. They just were very poor in big brake zones and had to brake earlier.

Need to keep a closer eye, but I think the lock ups are on turn in, in the main, which suggests yeah heavy braking, but trail braking. Might be mistaken though, it's just my anecdotal observations. Turn one is that sort of turn, as were the corners in China where we had issues, for instance.

Yes the drivers are always still braking some when they are starting to turn in. You need to overlay the steering and the braking to be fast. If the front end is too stiff, it will unload the inside wheel more and more than others. Mclaren drivers have to use a longer brake zone because you can't overlap the steering as much.

In general. it's why I mentioned that they'd be using V Shape entry to some corners, like at Japan, to avoid this. You can see the different corner approach in the telemetry. Where they appear to struggle is corners where they cannot escape the progressive turn in under braking. They can get away with hairpins etc, but not corners like turn 1. it's why I was wondering if issues were going to rear their heads this weekend. it's why I talked about the "old" Mclaren who had serious issues trail braking, and needed V approach to corners. That car hated Miami, but it also had not that many redeeming features, struggled with long corners and anything with multiple steering inputs. Basically, a lot of corners.

[AR3-GP]

Need to keep a closer eye, but I think the lock ups are on turn in, in the main, which suggests yeah heavy braking, but trail braking. Might be mistaken though, it's just my anecdotal observations. Turn one is that sort of turn, as were the corners in China where we had issues, for instance.

Yes the drivers are always still braking some when they are starting to turn in. You need to overlay the steering and the braking to be fast. If the front end is too stiff, it will unload the inside wheel more and more than others. Mclaren drivers have to use a longer brake zone because you can't overlap the steering as much.

In general. it's why I mentioned that they'd be using V Shape entry to some corners, like at Japan, to avoid this. You can see the different corner approach in the telemetry. Where they appear to struggle is corners where they cannot escape the progressive turn in under braking. They can get away with hairpins etc, but not corners like turn 1. it's why I was wondering if issues were going to rear their heads this weekend. it's why I talked about the "old" Mclaren who had serious issues trail braking, and needed V approach to corners. That car hated Miami, but it also had not that many redeeming features.

It's confusing because Lando was super on the brakes last year (Austria, COTA, Mexico comes to mind...).

[mwillems]

I might be confusing things, I mean MCL35/36 Old. Last year these issues didn't seem to exist as much. Last year he got pole after pole - no issues with pushing in Qualy, in the main, it was lap 1 where it all went wrong. The year before that he did have a lot of Q struggles though.

it's hard to tell but I think they'd done a lot under the surface to be able to have that Geometry. Pierre Wache at seasons start suggested it was an extreme dive geometry and he was interested to see how it worked due to the stresses put onto the arms with that layout - basically they are more horizontal and having to have a lot of strength to take the loads. Is that what is happening? Could it be flex of some sort in the arms under the biggest stresses, causing the traction to be uneven or that the car isn't held as stable against the ground at crucial times? Bouncing is the wrong word, as is oscillating, but I think you know what I mean.

[AR3-GP]

I might be confusing things, I mean MCL35/36 Old. Last year these issues didn't seem to exist as much. Last year he got pole after pole - no issues with pushing in Qualy, in the main, it was lap 1 where it all went wrong. The year before that he did have a lot of Q struggles though.

it's hard to tell but I think they'd done a lot under the surface to be able to have that Geometry. Pierre Wache at seasons start suggested it was an extreme dive geometry and he was interested to see how it worked due to the stresses put onto the arms with that layout.

This, I think, is what he means.

Yes, I agree that the root of the "issues" that Mclaren have (this is relative..they are 1-2), is the suspension change. However, that suspension change (and anything else they did) increased their performance overall, so it was worth it. Everything has tradeoffs. We have to be careful not to accuse Mclaren of having "problems". It's relative. Every team has compromises in their car. The only thing that matters is being first. Mclaren have to be careful of not overfocusing on the current "issue" to the point that they end up with a slower car.

Tsunoda made this point in the last race. When he got a "comfortable" setup, it didn't show in the laptime. Ricciardo was also hinting at this in 2021 and 2022 when he said he did a perfect lap and there was no pace. They focused too much on getting the car comfortable, and it was slower. When the car was uncomfortable (oversteer and understeer), it was faster overall. We're at a point with these regulations that faster cars also come with driving difficulty and you rely on driver to deal with it, or else build a slower car. Stella was hinting at this at the start of the year. They were hoping to not have to walk back some of their more extreme solutions in the name of making drivers "comfortable". All of RBs 2nd drivers are at the mercy of this philosophy.

[mwillems]

I might be confusing things, I mean MCL35/36 Old. Last year these issues didn't seem to exist as much. Last year he got pole after pole - no issues with pushing in Qualy, in the main, it was lap 1 where it all went wrong. The year before that he did have a lot of Q struggles though.

it's hard to tell but I think they'd done a lot under the surface to be able to have that Geometry. Pierre Wache at seasons start suggested it was an extreme dive geometry and he was interested to see how it worked due to the stresses put onto the arms with that layout.

This, I think, is what he means.

Yes, I agree that the root of the "issues" that Mclaren have (this is relative..they are 1-2), is the suspension change. However, that suspension change (and anything else they did) increased their performance overall, so it was worth it. Everything has tradeoffs. We have to be careful not to accuse Mclaren of having "problems". It's relative. Every team has compromises in their car. The only thing that matters is being first. Mclaren have to be careful of not overfocusing on the current "issue" to the point that they end up with a slower car.

Tsunoda made this point in the last race. When he got a "comfortable" setup, it didn't show in the laptime. When the car was uncomfortable (oversteer and understeer), it was faster overall. We're at a point with these regulations that faster cars also come with driving difficulty and you rely on driver to deal with it, or build a slower car. Stella was hinting at this at the start of the year. They were hoping to not have to walk back some of their more extreme solutions in the name of making drivers "comfortable".

I agree, just make the car faster, as long as it doesn't become RB like. But I'm wondering if the strength of the arms is the cause of the issue. If you could fix the issue, that would unlock a fair bit of pace and make the car pretty much complete as far as corners go. If either the drivers could cope with it better or the car was better in those corners, we'd likely have a lot more points even by now.

They did say they were going to make some changes under the skin, so you'd imagine if it were that simple, it would have happened.

[AR3-GP]

I might be confusing things, I mean MCL35/36 Old. Last year these issues didn't seem to exist as much. Last year he got pole after pole - no issues with pushing in Qualy, in the main, it was lap 1 where it all went wrong. The year before that he did have a lot of Q struggles though.

it's hard to tell but I think they'd done a lot under the surface to be able to have that Geometry. Pierre Wache at seasons start suggested it was an extreme dive geometry and he was interested to see how it worked due to the stresses put onto the arms with that layout.

This, I think, is what he means.

Yes, I agree that the root of the "issues" that Mclaren have (this is relative..they are 1-2), is the suspension change. However, that suspension change (and anything else they did) increased their performance overall, so it was worth it. Everything has tradeoffs. We have to be careful not to accuse Mclaren of having "problems". It's relative. Every team has compromises in their car. The only thing that matters is being first. Mclaren have to be careful of not overfocusing on the current "issue" to the point that they end up with a slower car.

Tsunoda made this point in the last race. When he got a "comfortable" setup, it didn't show in the laptime. When the car was uncomfortable (oversteer and understeer), it was faster overall. We're at a point with these regulations that faster cars also come with driving difficulty and you rely on driver to deal with it, or build a slower car. Stella was hinting at this at the start of the year. They were hoping to not have to walk back some of their more extreme solutions in the name of making drivers "comfortable".

I agree, just make the car faster, as long as it doesn't become RB like. But I'm wondering if the strength of the arms is the cause of the issue. If you could fix the issue, that would unlock a fair bit of pace and make the car pretty much complete as far as corners go. If either the drivers could cope with it better or the car was better in those corners, we'd likely have a lot more points even by now.

Everything is connected. You can't fix one issue without creating others. The car exist in a permanent state of compromise between slow, medium, and fast corners as well curbs riding, braking zones, and top speed. The drivers will then just find something else to complain about.

[mwillems]

I think I see this as a more fundamental flaw.

[AR3-GP]

Brown:

The American was annoyed by a scene in a Netflix documentary series in which his Red Bull colleague Christian Horner mentioned in a conversation that they had evidence of water in the McLaren's tires. Brown lost his temper. "This is clearly going too far. There's a team that's constantly trying to destabilize us with accusations along these lines."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... n-bremsen/

Also Brown

“The goal is to make ourselves as fast as possible, but there’s also a strategy of destabilising the competition. We try to create tension or disrupt other teams, which isn’t unique to F1 but is particularly pronounced here.

“You’re constantly fighting for employees, drivers, sponsors, and media attention plays a big role. If you can generate some instability in rival teams – and it doesn’t always work in our favor – it can slow them down while we focus on speeding up.”

https://www.cityam.com/zak-brown-admits ... stigation/

Lol

[Darth-Piekus]

In 2 hours and 44 minutes the Miami race will start. If Lando wants to bounce back for the championship and exploit the situation his teammate is he must divebomb at turn 1 and pass Max. If he doesn't do that and secure 2nd position does anyone know if we have chances of passing Max in the race without needing an undercut or overcut? Are the two DRS zones enough for a pass?

Also at the moment that the F1 Academy GP is going on it's raining heavily to the point you can't see from the spray and there are water lakes on the tarmac. Are we even going to race later?

So the rain stopped but rain is not starting for the F1 Academy GP and I wonder what's going to happen for the main F1 Miami GP.

Correction. The race did not happen for F1 Academy. So we are now waiting 2 and a half hours for the main race and hoping the tarmac will dry for slicks or at least stay in favorable conditions for the Mclaren.

[SilviuAgo]

Flexi wing saga came to an end in Miami



Drivers parade was in Lego cars. Some fun before the real thing. Let's go boys!

[Darth-Piekus]

Dry race it seems but there is lightning in the area. Hopefully our drivers can deliver whatever the conditions. In any case good luck to the team and our drivers. May we get one more victory or at worst minimize the damage.

A little off topic but don't you think the DRS Zones are small for this year?

[Mcl_G10]

Not much talk in the way of tyre strategy. If it's a dry start most are likely to start on mediums. Does anybody have idea what the tyre life for the softs are around here? It may be worth it for track position for some if rain is perhaps likely earlier in the race?

This could well be one of those races of right time right place for who wins it. A bit of a lottery race with the pending conditions and safety cars etc