Flexiwings 2025

[Quantum]

Water in the tires has been ruled out successfully because of Red Bull's inquisition. The other teams are benefitting handsomely from letting one team do the dirty work. Did the other teams have thermal cameras looking at Mclaren's brake tins? Another discovery courtesy of the Austrian inquisition.

And what illegality did the thermal camera discover?

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... all-clear/

[AR3-GP]

Water in the tires has been ruled out successfully because of Red Bull's inquisition. The other teams are benefitting handsomely from letting one team do the dirty work. Did the other teams have thermal cameras looking at Mclaren's brake tins? Another discovery courtesy of the Austrian inquisition.

And what illegality did the thermal camera discover?

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... all-clear/

Every question that is asked is an opportunity to learn more about what is and isn't happening. I'm unsure what we are arguing about. Forget about the bulls vs the silvers.

[Quantum]

Every question that is asked is an opportunity to learn more about what is and isn't happening. I'm unsure what we are arguing about.

Bogus and frivolous allegations.

“Teams have historically made allegations at other teams. Most recently, one team focuses on that strategy more than others. And I think there is a proper way to protest a team at the end of a race, and you have to make it formal, disclose where it comes from, you have to put some money down…. and that should come against your cost cap if it turns out you are wrong.

“I think that would significantly stop the bogus allegations which come from some teams in the sport.”

If you think it's illegal, make the protest. If not, get on with it.

[AR3-GP]

Every question that is asked is an opportunity to learn more about what is and isn't happening. I'm unsure what we are arguing about.

Bogus and frivolous allegations.

“Teams have historically made allegations at other teams. Most recently, one team focuses on that strategy more than others. And I think there is a proper way to protest a team at the end of a race, and you have to make it formal, disclose where it comes from, you have to put some money down…. and that should come against your cost cap if it turns out you are wrong.

“I think that would significantly stop the bogus allegations which come from some teams in the sport.”

If you think it's illegal, make the protest. If not, get on with it.

Missing the point. A team is using a fishing expedition to make sure a car is above board as well as to inform the FIA and to inform their own developments. No one protested the Ferrari engine in 2019...not the bulls and not the silvers...but they had a lot to say off the record.

We don't know the real long-term impact. The rival teams could now understand more clearly what Mclaren have done. The FIA themselves will understand more clearly what Mclaren have done and this could inform future rule changes that cripple Mclaren. There's a long history of the FIA targeting the dominant team with regulation changes. This probing by Mclaren's rivals will have consequences. They have simply not revealed themselves.

If you'll recall, Red Bull (and Ferrari, and a twitter account of a member here) are the reason that Mclaren was banned from using Mini-DRS. There were no protest lodged.

Again, I don't know what we're arguing about. "If not, get on with it" is not a real answer. "Get on with it" wouldn't have stopped Mclaren's mini-DRS last year and "get on with it" wouldn't have led to the flexi-wing TDs, the 2023 regs changes, the pit stop changes, and many other regulations changes in history that have targeted competitive teams.

[Watto]

Every question that is asked is an opportunity to learn more about what is and isn't happening. I'm unsure what we are arguing about.

Bogus and frivolous allegations.

“Teams have historically made allegations at other teams. Most recently, one team focuses on that strategy more than others. And I think there is a proper way to protest a team at the end of a race, and you have to make it formal, disclose where it comes from, you have to put some money down…. and that should come against your cost cap if it turns out you are wrong.

“I think that would significantly stop the bogus allegations which come from some teams in the sport.”

If you think it's illegal, make the protest. If not, get on with it.

Missing the point. A team is using a fishing expedition to make sure a car is above board as well as to inform the FIA and to inform their own developments. No one protested the Ferrari engine in 2019...not the bulls and not the silvers...but they had a lot to say off the record.

We don't know the real long-term impact. The rival teams could now understand more clearly what Mclaren have done. The FIA themselves will understand more clearly what Mclaren have done and this could inform future rule changes that cripple Mclaren. There's a long history of the FIA targeting the dominant team with regulation changes. This probing by Mclaren's rivals will have consequences. They have simply not revealed themselves.

If you'll recall, Red Bull (and Ferrari, and a twitter account of a member here) are the reason that Mclaren was banned from using Mini-DRS. There were no protest lodged.

Again, I don't know what we're arguing about. "If not, get on with it" is not a real answer. "Get on with it" wouldn't have stopped Mclaren's mini-DRS last year and "get on with it" wouldn't have led to the flexi-wing TDs, the 2023 regs changes, the pit stop changes, and many other regulations changes in history that have targeted competitive teams.

Even as you said the so called Mini DRS last year never came under an official protest? Just some enquiries - the FIA too I seem to recall said they rely on the teams to help police this stuff bring it too our attention we will look into it. They made a behind the scenes change to the wings even though it wasn't specifically banned (I don't think)and going back through footage it had been running for a while.

Or Red Bull with the ride height adjuster the footwell of the car. Was probably in all the CAD drawings the FIA had but once it became public knowledge the FIA came to inspection no changes needed but I think a case where the FIA didn't really know the details even though they were there for them to see - not something illegal in this case but a seal to make sure Red Bull didn't adjust after Parc Ferme. Sometimes the FIA requires teams or do some of this work to be aware of what is going on.

[Quantum]

Missing the point. A team is using a fishing expedition.................................................

Again, I don't know what we're arguing about. "If not, get on with it" is not a real answer. "Get on with it" wouldn't have stopped Mclaren's mini-DRS last year

I don't believe I am missing the point. There's fishing expeditions and then there's sending a trawler out with the express intent to disrupt with the bogus and frivolous nonsense we are seeing now.

"If you think it's it's illegal protest, if not get on with it" is a pertinent answer, you just may not like it.

And the Mini DRS point you raise asserts to that point.
Red Bull literally protested McLaren's mini DRS last year yo!

“Three times we protested against McLaren’s rear wing,” Red Bull Advisor, Helmut Marko said.

https://autoaction.com.au/2024/09/20/mc ... complaints

Anyhow, that's my side of things on that. Fin.

[Watto]

Missing the point. A team is using a fishing expedition.................................................

Again, I don't know what we're arguing about. "If not, get on with it" is not a real answer. "Get on with it" wouldn't have stopped Mclaren's mini-DRS last year

I don't believe I am missing the point. There's fishing expeditions and then there's sending a trawler out with the express intent to disrupt with the bogus and frivolous nonsense we are seeing now.

"If you think it's it's illegal protest, if not get on with it" is a pertinent answer, you just may not like it.

And the Mini DRS point you raise asserts to that point.
Red Bull literally protested McLaren's mini DRS last year yo!

“Three times we protested against McLaren’s rear wing,” Red Bull Advisor, Helmut Marko said.

https://autoaction.com.au/2024/09/20/mc ... complaints

Anyhow, that's my side of things on that. Fin.

I’m not sure there was an actual official protest was there though put money down run through the process . It’s the same is happening now drill the FIA for info. One of the other references I found in searching was following discussions with the FIA and Red Bull and Ferrari the FIA made some modifications to the rules re rear wing flex I - I mean I doubt you make an official protest 3 times running the whole process despite an absolute in writing green light it was okay. I’m detecting it’s a lost in translation protest over enquiring with the FIA

[langedweil]

No one protested the Ferrari engine in 2019.

In my recollection it was mainly an informative question to FIA that set things off and created that TD, all along the lines "Is it allowed to fuk around with the fuelflow sensor in just a way it won't correctly measure the fuel flow?"

And apparently, it was not ..
It was pretty genius btw

[AR3-GP]

It's no longer possible to distinguish the wing movement of the Mclaren from the movement of the bodywork holding the camera. The camera appears to move. I'm unsure if it's because the mount has failed or it had been done intentionally...I know that Mclaren in particular faced a lot of scrutiny in social media from rear face camera footage so perhaps they did something...

[Rikhart]

It's no longer possible to distinguish the wing movement of the Mclaren from the movement of the bodywork holding the camera. The camera appears to move. I'm unsure if it's because the mount has failed or it had been done intentionally...I know that Mclaren in particular faced a lot of scrutiny in social media from rear face camera footage so perhaps they did something...

This team is taking everyone for fools, but since it apparently suits the FIA agenda of "more competitiveness", it seems everything is just fine

[Paa]

I think there is a common misconception in this thread about that the team with the biggest flex in it's wing will lose the most with the TD. Although probably there is a strong correlation, it is still not a given.
The TD is just a a stricter static test. Even with the current test, different teams end up with different amount of flex in their wings and this will remain the same with the new TD.
These things are not linear so it can easily happen that the team with the most flex will be somewhat less affected than an other team which has already lower amount of flex. Some teams will not be affected at all etc.

Sometimes I feel that people just assume that each team will have x millimeter (or x%) less flex after the TD and that's all, but I think it's not that simple.

[catent]

It's no longer possible to distinguish the wing movement of the Mclaren from the movement of the bodywork holding the camera. The camera appears to move. I'm unsure if it's because the mount has failed or it had been done intentionally...I know that Mclaren in particular faced a lot of scrutiny in social media from rear face camera footage so perhaps they did something...

This team is taking everyone for fools, but since it apparently suits the FIA agenda of "more competitiveness", it seems everything is just fine

I'm not so sure the camera moving much. The only objects moving relative to the camera are elements of the car; trackside objects/grandstands seem stable relative to the camera.

And it's not just the rear wing. The engine cover, beam wing, exhaust, etc, all also seem to move/flex/squat (which I guess means the camera is in fact moving, to some extent).

The entire back-end of the McLaren looks significantly less rigid than the Mercedes and especially the Red Bull.

[SiLo]

I think the camera in the Mclaren is stabilised. Look how the track behind is nice and smooth, but the Red Bull and Mercedes cams are the opposite. The car is nice and static (bar the rear wing) but the track jolts and bumps out of focus.

[chrisc90]

I’ll see if there’s some full uncropped footage later tonight

[chrisc90]

Ill just leave this here...



(same footage without the line)