2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
ScuderiaLeo
0
Joined: 20 May 2024, 15:29
Location: Mexico

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

I just finished watching it. They mostly discussed other teams and rumors.

While they threw out Silverstone as a possibility for the suspension (and Spain as a no) considering how delicate that area of the car is and how much they need to work on, there's no guarantee at all. So it could be even later or it might not even work out. It's a big unknown since it's still in the middle of development.

Autoracer are dropping another article on Ferrari next week and they want to save some exclusive info for then so not much was said in the stream. :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
deadhead
64
Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

It almost sounds like a “b spec” but why? If not already the championship will be long gone by then

LetHimTrough
LetHimTrough
0
Joined: 07 Mar 2024, 13:52

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

deadhead wrote:
09 May 2025, 07:47
It almost sounds like a “b spec” but why? If not already the championship will be long gone by then
Only if they really think Mclaren will fall down after Barcelona and make the championship closer. With current Mclaren Dominance it really won't make much sense to introduce a B-spec in July and in the middle of the championship.

User avatar
Sergej
3
Joined: 09 Apr 2024, 19:00

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

It's done for saving face (and maybe someone's job). Ferrari can't afford to run whole championship in 4/5 force, even risking to be passed by other teams. They need to save the season somehow.

Farnborough
Farnborough
115
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

With such extensive change it would seem there's fundamental issue that can't be "adjusted" out of to bring performance.

The good thing, if successful, is that recognition is there, with an outlook able to match and solve that.

Some things that lead my view on this:- they gave views of suspension spring stiffness which really are "bread & butter" itens in race team production abilities. They can easily make what they want at any rate they need. There's been discussion of softer springs and different bellcrank curve for CL and appear to hold the advantage over LH in absolute pace, which to me suggests that there exists a basic core structural integrity / level problem within tub & gearbox stressed structures.
If the spring rates are simply ramped up in attempt to concisely control travel (height and hitting the track as evidence) then to ultimately fail, suggest the spring "grouping" is stiffer than the structure supporting it. Tbat gets them into a setting "loop" that looks to invert any gain they are attempting to achieve.

There has been rumour about gearbox integrity from the start and coming from Bahrain. The "box" itself is normally a unit containing the gear and diff etc as one piece, this "housed" in an outer casing exoskeleton unit (the part we see in build images) to take all if chassis load. This also ultimately structured to facilitate wing mount and rear crash structure architecture. If that component has to be changed, then crash test etc would logically be part of the development to sign off. Its not a short timescale for this being a more fundamental part of chassis layed down early in development.

This would highly likely feed into next year, at least in effectiveness terms. If no way of getting around it now, they've got to jump into it anyway.

If they have either undershot the torsional performance through design OR in build, there's no real answer but to change this.

You can get, multi rated suspension in rising rate, non linear, progressive, regressive, all three type within one suspension stroke at different points of movement, end stroke support "platform" damping shift, along with geometry shift ..... just in a DH bicycle rear suspension system. Just an illustration of what is possible in fairly mundane and relatively inexpensive system in general market. These F1 engineer team have far, far more information and support to enact their systems into chassis. If they can't do that, it seems to confirm some level of basic structure compromise exists in preventing that undoubted knowledge being used to correct this car.

Something fundamental in there is wrong.

Ordinarily, to run lower a stiffer spring rate would be used, set then to lower static height (the situation they acknowledge doesn't work) but keep needing to "jack" it in preventing ground strike demonstrating loss of control, or more correctly the opposite outcome from their changes. Torsional performance of chassis in lacking, classical in this type of response, never resolving, failing to "play" to book as logical adjustment is made.

It's not without that in history though, the previous SF seemed likely in the same area, with exclusion also caused by plank wear at COTA and when running competitive pace. Also characteristic in all of these lineage from 2022 being notably fickle since 2022. The TD 039 APPEARED to take away a floor flexing "loophole" that would have masked this aspect.

Monaco wouldn't necessarily punished this if true :mrgreen: not all races the plank would have been checked either.

Something in the core design is lacking, finding it now MUST take precedent for everything this team wants to achieve.

DJ Downforce
DJ Downforce
1
Joined: 10 Jan 2025, 12:48

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Of course the championships are now over but I wonder what effect this new suspension will apparently have.

What did the team get so wrong over the winter? Did a lack of technical director after Cardile left contribute?

I'll be at Silverstone so hope it is delivered there, I can bring live insights on the cars behaviour from the track :wink:

Emag
Emag
109
Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

I am also curious to know what exactly happened after FP2 in Australia. What did they notice that it was so bad that they (presumably) didn't notice in Bahrain during testing already. I guess we are taking it for a given that the car had to be raised for plank wear issues, but are we only basing that on what happened in China, or is there some "official" confirmation on that being the main problem?

The big performance drop from FP2 to FP3 and Quali was sticking out like sore thumb, but the pace shown there definitely hints towards deeper potential in the concept. It's just a shame that some sort of mechanical oversight is preventing them from using the car optimally.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

User avatar
Vanja #66
1735
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Emag wrote:
09 May 2025, 12:06
I am also curious to know what exactly happened after FP2 in Australia. What did they notice that it was so bad that they (presumably) didn't notice in Bahrain during testing already. I guess we are taking it for a given that the car had to be raised for plank wear issues, but are we only basing that on what happened in China, or is there some "official" confirmation on that being the main problem?

The big performance drop from FP2 to FP3 and Quali was sticking out like sore thumb, but the pace shown there definitely hints towards deeper potential in the concept. It's just a shame that some sort of mechanical oversight is preventing them from using the car optimally.
In Bahrain they only had some doubts about plank wear, Australia made them react in haste and caught them unprepared

As far as I can tell, China was a confirmation weekend that the problem is there and it's big. However, they seemed to have chosen to beat around the bush trying to find a way to work around the problem and delay tackling it head-on right away

This would have been a better solution if they could have found a way to solve it like that. Apparently, they can't, so it was probably just a waste of time in the end
"If anyone was to ask for my opinion, which, I note, they're not..." - The Fellowship

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Space-heat
Space-heat
11
Joined: 17 Sep 2023, 16:01

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
09 May 2025, 12:13
Emag wrote:
09 May 2025, 12:06
I am also curious to know what exactly happened after FP2 in Australia. What did they notice that it was so bad that they (presumably) didn't notice in Bahrain during testing already. I guess we are taking it for a given that the car had to be raised for plank wear issues, but are we only basing that on what happened in China, or is there some "official" confirmation on that being the main problem?

The big performance drop from FP2 to FP3 and Quali was sticking out like sore thumb, but the pace shown there definitely hints towards deeper potential in the concept. It's just a shame that some sort of mechanical oversight is preventing them from using the car optimally.
In Bahrain they only had some doubts about plank wear, Australia made them react in haste and caught them unprepared

As far as I can tell, China was a confirmation weekend that the problem is there and it's big. However, they seemed to have chosen to beat around the bush trying to find a way to work around the problem and delay tackling it head-on right away

This would have been a better solution if they could have found a way to solve it like that. Apparently, they can't, so it was probably just a waste of time in the end
It is just unfortunate all round. One can also assume, it will be difficult to gain meaningful insights of evolving the floor further before the new suspension arrives. It would be great to focus 26' with the new rule set but that will be for naught if they are significantly behind on the engine side (obvious no one knows, other than Merc are confident in their package).

The hope was that we would be competitive after Spain, now that is shifting to Silverstone (or later), it is disappointing as a fan. The other teams will continue evolving so even when the new package arrive, it is unlikely we will jump to the front. At least it will be proof the current technical team have the capacity to rectify the mistake and hopefully some learning for 26'. The kick is, it feels like Ferrari really failed to capitalize on the GE rules.

F1-75 was amazing before the TD, sticking with the in washing concept (not moving the SIS) for the SF23 set development back 6-12 months that ultimately cost the SF24 and just when everything was potential aligning for a push, the SF25 has a flawed rear design. In this period, Merc (22',23',24') and RB (24' (2nd half), 25') have faltered as well. Ferrari just can't seem to give Charles a car to compete.

As a United, Raptors, Browns and Ferrari fan it is upward sledding these past few years.

Farnborough
Farnborough
115
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Space-heat wrote:
09 May 2025, 12:46
Vanja #66 wrote:
09 May 2025, 12:13
Emag wrote:
09 May 2025, 12:06
I am also curious to know what exactly happened after FP2 in Australia. What did they notice that it was so bad that they (presumably) didn't notice in Bahrain during testing already. I guess we are taking it for a given that the car had to be raised for plank wear issues, but are we only basing that on what happened in China, or is there some "official" confirmation on that being the main problem?

The big performance drop from FP2 to FP3 and Quali was sticking out like sore thumb, but the pace shown there definitely hints towards deeper potential in the concept. It's just a shame that some sort of mechanical oversight is preventing them from using the car optimally.
In Bahrain they only had some doubts about plank wear, Australia made them react in haste and caught them unprepared

As far as I can tell, China was a confirmation weekend that the problem is there and it's big. However, they seemed to have chosen to beat around the bush trying to find a way to work around the problem and delay tackling it head-on right away

This would have been a better solution if they could have found a way to solve it like that. Apparently, they can't, so it was probably just a waste of time in the end
It is just unfortunate all round. One can also assume, it will be difficult to gain meaningful insights of evolving the floor further before the new suspension arrives. It would be great to focus 26' with the new rule set but that will be for naught if they are significantly behind on the engine side (obvious no one knows, other than Merc are confident in their package).

The hope was that we would be competitive after Spain, now that is shifting to Silverstone (or later), it is disappointing as a fan. The other teams will continue evolving so even when the new package arrive, it is unlikely we will jump to the front. At least it will be proof the current technical team have the capacity to rectify the mistake and hopefully some learning for 26'. The kick is, it feels like Ferrari really failed to capitalize on the GE rules.

F1-75 was amazing before the TD, sticking with the in washing concept (not moving the SIS) for the SF23 set development back 6-12 months that ultimately cost the SF24 and just when everything was potential aligning for a push, the SF25 has a flawed rear design. In this period, Merc (22',23',24') and RB (24' (2nd half), 25') have faltered as well. Ferrari just can't seem to give Charles a car to compete.

As a United, Raptors, Browns and Ferrari fan it is upward sledding these past few years.
It would seem that this chassis made very good use of floor elasticity and the supporting structure to facilitate that design choice.

Effectively to move the wear /calibration planes out of the way by facilitating flex locally to that specific part of the floor.
Thats a a "coping" method and not truly design competence. It looks like the team really hasn't got on top of this area (without a loophole solution) in this era.

The aero platform often looking good, but failure to enact that aspect of their designs through "incompetence" of structure seems prevalent.

User avatar
deadhead
64
Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Sergej wrote:
09 May 2025, 10:03
It's done for saving face (and maybe someone's job). Ferrari can't afford to run whole championship in 4/5 force, even risking to be passed by other teams. They need to save the season somehow.
good point and I'm sure both high profile drivers won't like it either