Wheel Covers Banned for 2010

[timbo]

So how do they affect a car following another car?

Not to much compared to the wings and diffuser, I think.

Genius. Well of course not.

I think there might be some unexpected effects. E.g. if wheel covers create a strong vortices close to the ground they may have a strong effect on following car, and the worst of all that effect would change a lot depending on relative position of following car making handling very unpredictable.

[ESPImperium]

So how do they affect a car following another car?

Basically what is happening is that they are making the air more turublent, meaning the turbulent air is making the front wing of the following car loose downforce and thus not able to follow as close as they are loosing a signifacant %age of downforce. It means that a car cant get out from the small pocket they are driving in to make a pass as the air isnt dissapating outwards, its dissapating rearward.

Im thinking its more like this immage ive tried to illustrate, Blue (Top) is with bin covers, the red (Bottom) is without bin covers:

[Michiba]

So how do they affect a car following another car?

Basically what is happening is that they are making the air more turublent, meaning the turbulent air is making the front wing of the following car loose downforce and thus not able to follow as close as they are loosing a signifacant %age of downforce. It means that a car cant get out from the small pocket they are driving in to make a pass as the air isnt dissapating outwards, its dissapating rearward.

Im thinking its more like this immage ive tried to illustrate, Blue (Top) is with bin covers, the red (Bottom) is without bin covers:

That's interesting. With that type of flow, I can see how it may 'seal' the air under the car. The vid from the other thread showed that the air actually went under the car and enhanced the effects of the diffuser.

However regarding the air coming out of the rear wheels, Are you sure it would be like that? The design of the rear wheel covers are much different to the front ones, and they don't seem to direct the air in any direction, whereas the fronts look like they direct the air downwards.

[i70q7m7ghw]

And what do you think will happen without the wheel covers? Air will just magically pass the wheels cleanly? ... It's going to be messier surely? Hence more drag?

The real reason these things are going is because nobody really wants to run them, it's only because everyone else is.

Talk of metal suspension components is stupidy, want to see another driver with a wishbone through his helmet?

[ESPImperium]

I think that Drag is what they are after, as drag is something for the cars to punch thrugh in the slipstream effect.

[i70q7m7ghw]

They do that now? Slipstreaming always happens, it's not affected by dirty air. Dirty air reduces downforce in corners.

So. Someone explain how removing the wheel covers is cleaning up the airflow around the car, it would appear that it would do the opposite.

I wan't to see them go, I just thing the reasons sounds a little fabricated.

[axle]

I see your point Diesel. If anything this move should only help Slipstreaming in a straight line and be worse in a corner. However I've see them mention the covers as *A* reason cars can't follow too closely...so they must be doing more than drag reduction, they must disturb the airflow adversely IMO...or they would actively encourage them, after all the development costs have been spent...and the FIA could easily standardise the part if cost was the issue.

Like I said before with out real CFD data will anyone of us on here know the truth?

[lkocev]

Even if they have an effect on overtaking, I think so in that arcticle with Sam Michael, he made it pretty clear that the effect will probably be very small.

In another thread on this forum, a poster designed a F1 car in a 3d modeling software and had some CFD run. He demonstrated that a low pressure zone would develope in the 3-6 o'clock position of the wheels, and that was most probably the reason for the positioning of the outlet duct on the rim sheild. I think so its more about ducting the high-temperature and high-pressure air inside the rim, to exit more or less exclusivley into a low-pressure zone, to increase the cooling efficiency.

(the blue colours indicate low pressure, the reder ones higher...)

I think so that it doesn't increase the overall cooling capacity, in fact some posters belive that it actually does the opposite, which is probably why we have seen teams sometimes run with the sheilds removed depending on the braking demands of the circuit. If it actullay is having an effect on the "sealing" of the floor, or if it is indeed "energising" the air under the floor then that is a different kettle of fish. Probably best to ask kilcoo of those effects...

[Michiba]

that's an interesting point. In no way do I dispute the point you have represented, but it begs the question as to why flow direction to the 3-6 oclock position is only applied to the front wheels and not the rears as you have alluded to.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The rears don't need the cooling enhancement? The rear wheel trims might be purely aerodynamic benefit only.

[wesley123]

I think so that it doesn't increase the overall cooling capacity, in fact some posters belive that it actually does the opposite, which is probably why we have seen teams sometimes run with the sheilds removed depending on the braking demands of the circuit. If it actullay is having an effect on the "sealing" of the floor, or if it is indeed "energising" the air under the floor then that is a different kettle of fish. Probably best to ask kilcoo of those effects...

I think the same, they did similair with the group c cars, completel seal the well off, it reduces drag in their way as air is free to flow through the sides and have no disruption by air from the wheels. On gurneyflap i believe in the peugeot 905 article they said the only fucntion of it was, reduce drag, cook the brakes and fall off.

[lkocev]

that's an interesting point. In no way do I dispute the point you have represented, but it begs the question as to why flow direction to the 3-6 oclock position is only applied to the front wheels and not the rears as you have alluded to.

Well, the rim sheilds on the front dont rotate with the wheels, the rears do however. Making a sheild for the rears with an outlet in the same position as the front would simply not work because the shield itself is part of the rim, and roates. I belive that would lead to vibrations and the feeling of poor balance to the driver.

I correct myself for stating that the low pressure zone in that CFD picture was in the 3-6 o'clock position, obviously, it is actually the 6-9 o'clock position. It would be 3-6 o'clock if the car was facing the other way...

[panchito401]

Good move IMO. Next they should look at whishbones. Titanium was more cost efficient.

steel will probably be cheaper with similar weight if you can get the wall thickness down....

but I think composite might actually behave better during an accident in that they might be less likely to puncture the tub...

Thats the exact reason that composite suspension will be kept for the front end. Saftey first, then aero purposes.

However, i think they should look to ditch composites for the rear suspension. Next thing they should look at is the mid car bodywork section. Basically a maximum cross-section air box and a standard cross-section side pod inlets to provide some drag to the cars. try and give the car behind something to punch thrugh. Exausts will get looked at as well, ban perriscope ones and bring back the ones that interfere with the diffuser like the cars of the late 80s and early 90s.

But Sam Michael has it right, if we get the small things right, the big thing will come out of it.

I know this is a little off topic, and I didn't think it was worth posting a new thread about, but I like where you're going with the exhaust exits... maybe the exhaust would have to exit the car below the centerline of the driveshafts or something like that?

-f

[Mystery Steve]

that's an interesting point. In no way do I dispute the point you have represented, but it begs the question as to why flow direction to the 3-6 oclock position is only applied to the front wheels and not the rears as you have alluded to.

Revisiting the discussion we had in the diffuser design thread a few days ago... If they are indeed used to redirect airflow under the car and increase the effectiveness of the underbody, that flow could likely be interrupted when the wheels are turned or there is some yaw velocity. This would mean that they would have the extra flow through the underbody in a straight line, but not when it is really needed while the car is turning. Without using moving aero elements, how could they manage to eliminate steering sensitivity from the overall downforce?

What thread was that CFD image pulled from? Is there a description of the simulation scenario used, such as rotating wheels, moving road, etc?

[noname]

Good move IMO. Next they should look at whishbones. Titanium was more cost efficient.

I am not sure if the cost of material has much contribution to the overall cost of the design. how many wishbones they are doing during the season ? 5-6 sets per car ? how many hours have to be spent just to have the drawings done ? I bet it may be at least few hundreds, quite a few tens of $ each.

they are doing composite wishbones for a years and understand the technology behind them really well. switch from composite to metallic ones means a little bit more than changing manufacturing process - you will have design with different stiffness, damping, mass, etc. creating design with such a complicated shapes as we see today and with similar properties may be very complicated (read: expensive), if not impossible. apart from that teams would have to invest in the tooling needed to create the hardware. if, i.e., they would like to have them made by hydroforming that may be a really expensive change.

the point is reducing costs of material does not have to translate into overall saving as we may create costs somewhere else.

regards