2025 McLaren F1 Team

[CjC]

One thing I will caveat my comment with is Red Bull seem to carry a shade more rear downforce than McLaren currently which would make them appear to be stronger in those circumstances.

I personally think that’s what happened in Imola, which allowed Verstappen to have his commanding win- more rear DF, faster in the high speed corners, more DF meant he had less slip in those high speed corners which kept his deg under control.
I’m fully confident in McLaren- they certainly know more than me but they have only ran a spoon rear wing of some sort all season so far and I can’t help but feel a little more rear DF would change the picture slightly.

I’ve said before, I’m really looking forward to see the competitive picture when the full DF rear wings go on- I might be disappointed with the perforce when they do but that’s F1. As for Monaco- any driver from Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes or Ferrari can win that race because it’s so unique.

[Darth-Piekus]

https://x.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/19 ... JYv-w&s=19

Trying to clip Macca? Or were they too close to the line?

Do you think the FIA are trying to give Red Bull the upper hand to make the championship more interesting? Hopefully that is not the case and come Spain with the new upgrade things will return to normal.

[FittingMechanics]

Oscar pulling the trigger to go for two stops is the same mistake McLaren made in Monza. Maybe the tires wouldn't last or they just didn't treat them right but at least here it didn't really cause them to lose a victory. They were in P2 already by that time.

We can view at it any way we want, but it is clear McLaren is not a top team strategy wise.

They can't be criticised in Suzuka for not trying, them criticised for trying sonething. It wouldn't really make a difference but it didn't really lose anything ( for the team, maybe Oscar lost 3 points)

They can be criticised if the calls are wrong in both cases. Btw I've said that I can understand Piastri call in Imola - he was sure it's a two stop and thought they have a chance to undercut. That is the least problematic of calls.

Problem in Japan was that they effectively ran one strategy with two cars, instead of trying a different strategy to put Verstappen under pressure.

Problem in Imola was that undercut attempt put them in heavy hard tire traffic. Then second problem is pitting Norris for no reason (he was matching Verstappen). Third problem was pitting Norris to fight against Piastri and have a risk of a team double DNF.

[Ben1980]

Oscar pulling the trigger to go for two stops is the same mistake McLaren made in Monza. Maybe the tires wouldn't last or they just didn't treat them right but at least here it didn't really cause them to lose a victory. They were in P2 already by that time.

We can view at it any way we want, but it is clear McLaren is not a top team strategy wise.

They can't be criticised in Suzuka for not trying, them criticised for trying sonething. It wouldn't really make a difference but it didn't really lose anything ( for the team, maybe Oscar lost 3 points)

They can be criticised if the calls are wrong in both cases. Btw I've said that I can understand Piastri call in Imola - he was sure it's a two stop and thought they have a chance to undercut. That is the least problematic of calls.

Problem in Japan was that they effectively ran one strategy with two cars, instead of trying a different strategy to put Verstappen under pressure.

Problem in Imola was that undercut attempt put them in heavy hard tire traffic. Then second problem is pitting Norris for no reason (he was matching Verstappen). Third problem was pitting Norris to fight against Piastri and have a risk of a team double DNF.

When Norris pitted first, he was losing time to Max. He had got to below 9 seconds, then rapidly going back to 10. He said on an interview that they suffered with deg more than Red Bull. If he had lost more time, he falls behind more cars. It was unlucky in vsc, but he needed to stop.

Lando was given the option to pit, he didn't lose anything. It was an absolute no brainer, especially after Max stopped. In no way, can I see why he wouldn't take the stop. At worst, he goes out behind Albon if he didn't stop but he did.

[f1isgood]

I don't want to be that person, but Suzuka was decided after Turn 1. Oscar wasn't significantly quicker to pass Lando. There was no guarantee that he'd pass Max either. Red Bull also ran a really light rear wing there and with basically no passing zones, nothing would have changed.

I think McLaren did the right thing in both races in any case. In Suzuka if they let Piastri attack Max and then he failed, they'd have to have him swap around with Lando later. That would only lead to acrimony between the drivers, if there already isn't.

Yesterday Piastri's tires were not great relative to Max, and they committed to a two stop. In the end, Lando also wouldn't have had pace to pass Max. I thought Lando profited from a bit of luck in getting that P2 and in principle McLaren could have told him to hold position as without such a big tire delta, I don't see Lando pass Oscar either, regardless of if the latter is quicker than Max or not.

In any case, all these issues are because McLaren don't know who's their number one driver. If they can decide on that, and not race for the sake of whatever, they'd probably get a bigger shot at the WDC anyways, which is theirs to lose but it'll be smoother as no one's going to get the WCC bar Macca this year.

[CjC]

https://x.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/19 ... JYv-w&s=19

Trying to clip Macca? Or were they too close to the line?

Supposedly McLaren aren’t involved in the latest TDs

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/fia- ... en-battle/

[_cerber1]

Red Bull was strong in Suzuka, Jeddah and Imola, all these tracks have the following things in common, medium and high speed corners, and also low consumption of rubber, due to various reasons. In such conditions, McLaren has almost no advantage, because the Red Bull chassis works very well in such corners. That's all. No TD participated in the victory over McLaren. Most likely, this TD specifies some basic things that all teams accept and are satisfied with. I do not think that McLaren would vote for the introduction of this directive if it could harm them.

[Mansell89]

Any fears in Monaco or is the Macca just as good now in low speed to not worry?

Personally I don’t know what to think.
Mark Hughes says the Red Bull has an advantage over McLaren in the high speed which would suggest McLaren are better in the slower stuff, Mark also suggest McLaren have an advantage in traction and to a certain extent I’ve read Stella echoing the same suggestions. However, I’ve heard Lando twice say now (in Imola and I can’t remember the other venue) that Red Bull are stronger in the slow speed corners.
So I haven’t a clue.

Yeah agree slightly contrasting soundbytes.

Interested to see how they go

[mwillems]

Oscar pulling the trigger to go for two stops is the same mistake McLaren made in Monza. Maybe the tires wouldn't last or they just didn't treat them right but at least here it didn't really cause them to lose a victory. They were in P2 already by that time.

We can view at it any way we want, but it is clear McLaren is not a top team strategy wise.

They can't be criticised in Suzuka for not trying, them criticised for trying sonething. It wouldn't really make a difference but it didn't really lose anything ( for the team, maybe Oscar lost 3 points)

They can be criticised if the calls are wrong in both cases. Btw I've said that I can understand Piastri call in Imola - he was sure it's a two stop and thought they have a chance to undercut. That is the least problematic of calls.

Problem in Japan was that they effectively ran one strategy with two cars, instead of trying a different strategy to put Verstappen under pressure.

Problem in Imola was that undercut attempt put them in heavy hard tire traffic. Then second problem is pitting Norris for no reason (he was matching Verstappen). Third problem was pitting Norris to fight against Piastri and have a risk of a team double DNF.

Exactly, and that's a call the team can make. "We can pit if it's bad, but there's a risk you'll be slower because of traffic, of which you will come into a lot".

I'm not sure if that was said over the radio or not, but judging by Oscar's comments, I don't think he got all the relevant info but was essentially left to make a decision.

If he was told all the info but took a risk anyway, that's a different matter, but this would seem not to be the case.

[Ben1980]

https://x.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/19 ... JYv-w&s=19

Trying to clip Macca? Or were they too close to the line?

Supposedly McLaren aren’t involved in the latest TDs

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/fia- ... en-battle/

Would you expect them to say anything different??

[Lazy]

I don't want to be that person, but Suzuka was decided after Turn 1. Oscar wasn't significantly quicker to pass Lando. There was no guarantee that he'd pass Max either. Red Bull also ran a really light rear wing there and with basically no passing zones, nothing would have changed.

I think McLaren did the right thing in both races in any case. In Suzuka if they let Piastri attack Max and then he failed, they'd have to have him swap around with Lando later. That would only lead to acrimony between the drivers, if there already isn't.

Yesterday Piastri's tires were not great relative to Max, and they committed to a two stop. In the end, Lando also wouldn't have had pace to pass Max. I thought Lando profited from a bit of luck in getting that P2 and in principle McLaren could have told him to hold position as without such a big tire delta, I don't see Lando pass Oscar either, regardless of if the latter is quicker than Max or not.

In any case, all these issues are because McLaren don't know who's their number one driver. If they can decide on that, and not race for the sake of whatever, they'd probably get a bigger shot at the WDC anyways, which is theirs to lose but it'll be smoother as no one's going to get the WCC bar Macca this year.

It wasn't luck that Oscar was chewing through his tyres, Lando was just much better in the race. In reality he was really unlucky to pit just before the VSC which gifted Max a cheap pit stop.

[CjC]

https://x.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/19 ... JYv-w&s=19

Trying to clip Macca? Or were they too close to the line?

Supposedly McLaren aren’t involved in the latest TDs

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/fia- ... en-battle/

Would you expect them to say anything different??

Well after Baku 2024 Stella said after talking to the FIA McLaren will make a change to their wing, so going off that evidence we have to believe them

[Emag]

It looks like McLaren has an advantage in traction zones, but it doesn't show out of every corner type and their advantage is not consistent across all tracks. They were really slow out of the hairpin in Suzuka for example, often losing 0.15-0.2s to Max there. But they were really good out of acque minerale in Imola. It looks like it's setup dependent, both for them and their rivals. It depends on who has to make most compromises for a specific track.

Difficult to properly read the actual advantage (if they even have any after Imola) McLaren has, because there's not been a stable reference. RedBull has been all over the place this season. They were decent in Australia, but bad in China. Really good in Japan, but really bad in Bahrain. Then they were really good in Jeddah (actually the fastest car by average pace), but then they suffered from really bad deg in Miami. And now again, they were really good in Imola, so let's see if they carry on with their top form in Monaco after upgrades.

Even the temperature factor that was considered the main culprit behind the dominance in Miami, can't actually be considered a stable data point, because track temp was higher in Imola and that did nothing. Track temps in Miami were also the same as they were in Jeddah but RedBull was faster there. McLaren's advantage doesn't seem to be dictated by them at all. They probably have the most balanced package that works really well across different tracks and the gap increases or decreases depending on how much competitors can get out of their car in a given weekend.

[venkyhere]

We can view at it any way we want, but it is clear McLaren is not a top team strategy wise.

McLaren have been getting their calls right most of the time, right from second half of 2024 (after their lessons learnt from howler calls like silverstone'24).

However, they are still a 'safety first' non-gambler team. There are times when strategy needs to throw away all the algorithms and go by human instinct - take a killer risk by placing all the chips on red and go for the call. That poker game mentality isn't there at all. Mercedes and Redbull are masters of such hot takes. They get it wrong probably 50% of the time, but they aren't afraid to take such chances.

[CjC]

Something else to consider @Emag , we haven’t heard much talk from anyone about how green the track was in Miami- it’s smashed it down with rain Sunday morning before the race.
Then look at flying Fridays Mclaren seen to enjoy- Horner reckoned Mclaren was 7ths quicker than Max in FP2 in Imola- again a green track.
So another aspect we need to consider is, is the track rubbering through the weekend helping the other cars?

Also there was no rubber down in Australia because it was smashing it down in the race.