2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

I have a feeling that Redbull have blundered by wasting their 2nd medium in FP3. They ran a hard in FP1 for a few laps, but I don't know whether they have 'handed it back' or are keeping it for the race. Max has 1H, 1M and a bunch of used softs. The C6 won't last much on the Redbull (even if it does on the McLaren and Ferrari) so that would be bad starting tyre, unless there is a red flag over the first 4-5 laps ; which can't be predicted. I have a feeling they have blown their podium chances vide their sub optimal tyre allocation choices.

This factor came to bite them on their ass, eventually. H was the wrong tyre to start. Two Ms and one H was the ideal combo - start on the Ms and undercut Piastri whenever he is backing up. The two VSCs had to be 'wasted without pitting' and continue on H, because the 3rd tyre was a used soft. And the last stop had to be postponed indefinitely (allowing the top three to 'catch up' 3-4 carlengths behind) in the vain hope for a redflag (in a race where no one was 'trying' any wheel to wheel action). I am afraid Redbull have to accept the sub optimal tyre blunder they made on Saturday. FP3 could have been run on S alone. Had they started on M and then used one of the VSCs to pit into a H, leapfrogging Piastri was definitely possible, given how 'edgy & unclean' his driving was. Instead, they went into a 'surely 2-stop' race with a 1-stop tyre allocation. And duly paid the price.
Anyway, notwithstanding this error, P4 (no positions lost) was a sort of success by itself, given how slower the car was to the McLaren and LeClerc.

Barcelona is a track on which Max is amazing, now we have no chicane. There are mainly just medium-high speed corners. Again keeping the tyres alive will be the key. I really hope after next sunday I can say, "we can fight, now we can fight". Otherwise I will just enjoy the races until the end of the season. Nothing lasts forever in f1.

Glad to read this 'birds eye view' comment from you, given how much of a diehard fan you are of Max&Redbull. We are here to 'enjoy' and chew the 'armchair expertise' gum amongst ourselves. We have no skin in the game.

[bigblue]

"Not much happened in my race apart from Pierre crashing into me."

[Paa]

nothing to do with their tire allocation. they had pretty much guaranteed chance to OVERcut piastri on first occasion, unless they made a very bad pitstop, but decided to go for the win hoping for 1 out of 100 chance of safety car in the following few laps. Mclaren made a big mistake on a pitstop - worth 1.5s loss, what other presents do hyped up hannah schmitz need from their rivals? just gift them the win by retiring both cars? you are being gifted a golden opportunity at monaco - you take it and get a race position in order to close the gap in the wdc. do something....instead they just passively wait wait and wait...I frankly do not understand what happened to that team, If australia was already bad enough, this one was just horrible.

It has everything to do with tyre allocation.
They only had 1 hard tyre and 1 medium at the start of the race. Starting on the hards determined that they have to go long. It was never an option to change the tyre in sync with the others starting in medium (all others had 2 sets of hard at that point).

Their strategy made sure to keep their starting position at the very worst case, while giving them a ~20-25 lap window for red flags to win the race. I would say it was a guaranteed 4th with a ~10%-15% chance of winning.

What you are suggesting was to have a chance for 3rd place, but be extremely vulnerable for the rest of the race, risking to even get outside of the points.

Their strategy was capped from the bottom, 4th guarantee with a distant chance of winning. Your strategy would give them 3rd at best case with a chance of getting outside of the points.

I think it was the best given their tyre choices. But I also think it was a mistake not to keep one more hard or medium for the race, because having only 2 racing tyre for a 3 stint race really limited their options.

[avantman]

nothing to do with their tire allocation. they had pretty much guaranteed chance to OVERcut piastri on first occasion, unless they made a very bad pitstop, but decided to go for the win hoping for 1 out of 100 chance of safety car in the following few laps. Mclaren made a big mistake on a pitstop - worth 1.5s loss, what other presents do hyped up hannah schmitz need from their rivals? just gift them the win by retiring both cars? you are being gifted a golden opportunity at monaco - you take it and get a race position in order to close the gap in the wdc. do something....instead they just passively wait wait and wait...I frankly do not understand what happened to that team, If australia was already bad enough, this one was just horrible.

It has everything to do with tyre allocation.
They only had 1 hard tyre and 1 medium at the start of the race. Starting on the hards determined that they have to go long. It was never an option to change the tyre in sync with the others starting in medium (all others had 2 sets of hard at that point).

Their strategy made sure to keep their starting position at the very worst case, while giving them a ~20-25 lap window for red flags to win the race. I would say it was a guaranteed 4th with a ~10%-15% chance of winning.

What you are suggesting was to have a chance for 3rd place, but be extremely vulnerable for the rest of the race, risking to even get outside of the points.

Their strategy was capped from the bottom, 4th guarantee with a distant chance of winning. Your strategy would give them 3rd at best case with a chance of getting outside of the points.

I think it was the best given their tyre choices. But I also think it was a mistake not to keep one more hard or medium for the race, because having only 2 racing tyre for a 3 stint race really limited their options.

Iam not sure you've been following race strategy closely enough. Piastri stopped on lap 21, Max eventually stopped for medium on lap 29 and done the rest of the race on that same medium set. Stopping 7 or 6 laps earlier would not change anything for him and his tire situation, if anything it would only make things a lot easier, because Piastri would for sure have tried to undercut him later, forcing Max to respond and stop much earlier than lap 77 for soft. 30-35 laps on soft would be easily doable at low pace and we saw today how slow one could be and still stay ahead easily.

I don't understand why you guys chose to be that much defensive. For you they seem to never do anything wrong. It was a really bad off weekend both from Max side who failed to set the car up properly and prepare it for qualifying and another extremely poorly managed race from Schmitz and her crew that allowed the championship leader increase the gap whereas P3 (and crucial 6 points swing) was there for taking, although not guaranteed because Piastri might have accomplished succesfull undercut later.

[Paa]

Iam not sure you've been following race strategy closely enough. Piastri stopped on lap 21, Max eventually stopped for medium on lap 29 and done the rest of the race on that same medium set. Stopping 7 or 6 laps earlier would not change anything for him and his tire situation, if anything it would only make things a lot easier, because Piastri would for sure have tried to undercut him later, forcing Max to respond and stop much earlier than lap 77 for soft. 30-35 laps on soft would be easily doable at low pace and we saw today how slow one could be and still stay ahead easily.

You are telling this with an advantage of hindsight, knowing how the race went. But at that point you did not know how the race would develop.

The risk of having only used softs left for Max for his last stop is that he can't really have his last stop before lap53-60 or so. 20-25 laps on a used C6 is already a stretch.

So if Max changes his only hard to his only medium at lap21, then he can't react to any potential SC/red flag between lap 21-lap55. He is vulnerable at this stage, so he needed to limit the laps between his first stop and the potential window of his second stop (lap53+)
If there is an SC at let's say Lap 35 --> Verstappen's choice is to either do his last pit and then go for a 43lap stint on used C6. The other choice is to keep the lead on his semi-used medium, possibly creating a train behind him with the others on new hards. Then eventually fall back to the end of that train when he does his last pit at the end.

This is what I mean that not having an other potent racing tyre limited his options as he couldn't bring his last stop too early. This is why his only realistic option was to go long and wait for a miracle red-flag.

Realistically his lap 29 first pit was also too early, but as I remember he had to go, otherwise he would have been overcut by Hamilton soon.

[AR3-GP]

Iam not sure you've been following race strategy closely enough. Piastri stopped on lap 21, Max eventually stopped for medium on lap 29 and done the rest of the race on that same medium set. Stopping 7 or 6 laps earlier would not change anything for him and his tire situation, if anything it would only make things a lot easier, because Piastri would for sure have tried to undercut him later, forcing Max to respond and stop much earlier than lap 77 for soft. 30-35 laps on soft would be easily doable at low pace and we saw today how slow one could be and still stay ahead easily.

You are telling this with an advantage of hindsight, knowing how the race went. But at that point you did not know how the race would develop.

The risk of having only used softs left for Max for his last stop is that he can't really have his last stop before lap53-60 or so. 20-25 laps on a used C6 is already a stretch.

So if Max changes his only hard to his only medium at lap21, then he can't react to any potential SC/red flag between lap 21-lap55. He is vulnerable at this stage, so he needed to limit the laps between his first stop and the potential window of his second stop (lap53+)
If there is an SC at let's say Lap 35 --> Verstappen's choice is to either do his last pit and then go for a 43lap stint on used C6. The other choice is to keep the lead on his semi-used medium, possibly creating a train behind him with the others on new hards. Then eventually fall back to the end of that train when he does his last pit at the end.

This is what I mean that not having an other potent racing tyre limited his options as he couldn't bring his last stop too early. This is why his only realistic option was to go long and wait for a miracle red-flag.

Realistically his lap 29 first pit was also too early, but as I remember he had to go, otherwise he would have been overcut by Hamilton soon.

I think they missed 1 trick which was staying close to Piastri before he stopped for the first time. PIA had a 3.8 second stop. That was an easy pass through the pits but VER was 3 seconds behind PIA when PIA pitted.

[Paa]

I think they missed 1 trick which was staying close to Piastri before he stopped for the first time. PIA had a 3.8 second stop. That was an easy pass through the pits but VER was 3 seconds behind PIA when PIA pitted.

I think they never really considered to stop that early anyway so it was not on their radar.

edit: In hindsight, knowing how the race went, they probably could have secured P3.
edit2: thinking about it, probably even if they overcut Piastri at the first stop, they couldn't have kept the position.
As Piastri could have gone for an early stop to undercut Max, let's say at lap 35 or so. While Max wouldn't have been able to react with only used softs left for him.

[venkyhere]

I think they missed 1 trick which was staying close to Piastri before he stopped for the first time. PIA had a 3.8 second stop. That was an easy pass through the pits but VER was 3 seconds behind PIA when PIA pitted.

I think they never really considered to stop that early anyway so it was not on their radar.

edit: In hindsight, knowing how the race went, they probably could have secured P3.
edit2: thinking about it, probably even if they overcut Piastri at the first stop, they couldn't have kept the position.
As Piastri could have gone for an early stop to undercut Max, let's say at lap 35 or so. While Max wouldn't have been able to react with only used softs left for him.

Whatever angle we look at it from, it circles back to Redbull wasting a race tyre in FP3.

[AR3-GP]

I think they missed 1 trick which was staying close to Piastri before he stopped for the first time. PIA had a 3.8 second stop. That was an easy pass through the pits but VER was 3 seconds behind PIA when PIA pitted.

I think they never really considered to stop that early anyway so it was not on their radar.

edit: In hindsight, knowing how the race went, they probably could have secured P3.
edit2: thinking about it, probably even if they overcut Piastri at the first stop, they couldn't have kept the position.
As Piastri could have gone for an early stop to undercut Max, let's say at lap 35 or so. While Max wouldn't have been able to react with only used softs left for him.

(Assuming they overcut Piastri due to bad pitstop) Max would have been ahead on the road and then Hamilton was still in the pit window of Piastri and could be held their indefinitely if Max just slowed down. That would have made it less attractive for Mclaren to pit him for the last stop to undercut. He would be stuck behind Hamilton who had no pace and Hamiton didn't have any reason to stop. He could afford to wait longer for a red flag.

I think the season is still open and it's just going to come down to if the car is fast enough on a consistent basis. If they continue this podium-no podium-podium-no podium streak then it's not going to happen.

[Paa]

I think the season is still open and it's just going to come down to if the car is fast enough on a consistent basis. If they continue this podium-no podium-podium-no podium streak then it's not going to happen.

Yes, being only 1 race-win away from the leader at 1/3 season is really good damage control.
From Spain onwards Max needs to start finishing ahead of the McLarens on a consistent basis. Which effectively mean, winning races.

If they can do that post TD&Upgrades then it is game on. If everyting stays the same nothing really matters, we just have to be happy for the occasional race wins.

Probably the most important race is coming next week with good indications on the rest of the season.

[Sergej]

But the upgrades around the rear corner are not coming next week right ? They may be much more important than the TD and we may not see them until Austria, so not all will be decided at Barcelona.

[1158]

I wonder if pitting for the new mediums and then at the second stop putting the hards back on from the start of the race would have been a viable option.

[Watto]

Another pathetic performance from the strategy group. Just pathetic. Got extremely lucky once in Brazil now they are they doing the same thing time after time again hoping to get lucky once again. Wasted opportunity in Australia, wasted opportunity to try at least undercut Piastri twice.

Honestly I think they maximized the chances they had. Gambling on a red flag was a good idea and could have given them a massive +20 points swing.

Undercutting Piastri was not really on cards, especially as they started on hards.

I think Red Bulls choice of tyres almost forced their hand there.

Knowing they would have to use the softs at some point and they really didn't like the soft.

Probably took the gamble you said too too the chance of making up an extra 20 odd points over 3 by overacting Oscar in what would have been a very tight pit stop and Red Bulls pit stops this year have been below their best..

[avantman]

Another pathetic performance from the strategy group. Just pathetic. Got extremely lucky once in Brazil now they are they doing the same thing time after time again hoping to get lucky once again. Wasted opportunity in Australia, wasted opportunity to try at least undercut Piastri twice.

Honestly I think they maximized the chances they had. Gambling on a red flag was a good idea and could have given them a massive +20 points swing.

Undercutting Piastri was not really on cards, especially as they started on hards.

I think Red Bulls choice of tyres almost forced their hand there.

Knowing they would have to use the softs at some point and they really didn't like the soft.

Probably took the gamble you said too too the chance of making up an extra 20 odd points over 3 by overacting Oscar in what would have been a very tight pit stop and Red Bulls pit stops this year have been below their best..

I can pretty much guarantee any of you, they were not afraid of putting on softs and making a long stint on it. Otherwise how on earth would they go into the race starting on hard, having only 1 medium and used soft left?
What would they do had the race been red flag on lap 1? Leave hard and not get a free chance to swap? There is no tire wear in Monaco. It can grain, deg but never wear down to carcass compromising tire integrity and probability to finish the race. And we saw he could go even 5 seconds slower and keep the position.

They were just ultra greedy hoping to get a lucky win. They had a chance to get 3rd but refused to get it only because of greed and hopes to hit a jackpot.

[organic]

But the upgrades around the rear corner are not coming next week right ? They may be much more important than the TD and we may not see them until Austria, so not all will be decided at Barcelona.

We just have to hope Barcelona is cold