2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[Otromundo]

I'm sorry to disagree with the majority. For me, given the current car, I think the best teammate is Lance. If the car improves significantly (ALO is starting to shine near the podium +/-) and Lance can't stay in the top 10 (3-5 cars behind ALO), then that would change things.

The car hasn't been going well since the start of last season. The team has been unable to improve its performance. Lance is the son of the team owner. ALO is the first driver, but if the car improves, he has to be able to do so too. And it would be strange if he didn't. Everything is perfect for season 26 with a genuine AN car.

There's an old Spanish saying whose English equivalent is: "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't." I think popular wisdom is usually right.

I'm not saying who is or isn't the better driver for the team. I'm just trying to point out that there is another way of reading the tea leaves of Alonso not getting the Imola upgrades first.

It wasn't directed at you, Diffuser. I'm saying this in a general sense, since you're having a debate (1). It's directed at everyone simply as an opinion on the matter. I think we need to be careful, patient, improve, and ultimately succeed based on what we already have.

(1) Edited: Rather, to avoid confusion, "there is a debate."

[diffuser]

I'm sorry to disagree with the majority. For me, given the current car, I think the best teammate is Lance. If the car improves significantly (ALO is starting to shine near the podium +/-) and Lance can't stay in the top 10 (3-5 cars behind ALO), then that would change things.

The car hasn't been going well since the start of last season. The team has been unable to improve its performance. Lance is the son of the team owner. ALO is the first driver, but if the car improves, he has to be able to do so too. And it would be strange if he didn't. Everything is perfect for season 26 with a genuine AN car.

There's an old Spanish saying whose English equivalent is: "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't." I think popular wisdom is usually right.

I'm not saying who is or isn't the better driver for the team. I'm just trying to point out that there is another way of reading the tea leaves of Alonso not getting the Imola upgrades first.

It wasn't directed at you, Diffuser. I'm saying this in a general sense, since you're having a debate (1). It's directed at everyone simply as an opinion on the matter. I think we need to be careful, patient, improve, and ultimately succeed based on what we already have.

(1) Edited: Rather, to avoid confusion, "there is a debate."

Right, I thought, maybe wrongly, that since you went after defending Lance. That my post was being interpreted as being fore getting rid of Lance. I was just trying to clarified my post on the basis of what you wrote.

[Otromundo]

No problem, and thanks for the reply. I had to edit because I wanted to use the plural (you've) and I made a mistake (it came out as you're). I didn't realize it when I reviewed the text before publishing it. It was afterward and I said to myself: "Oh my God, what a fix I've made". Now that it's all explained, I feel great.

Being an ALO fan is exhausting. The epic aspect is fine; perhaps that's when you enjoy a hobby the most. But epic moments also have disastrous moments (the clearest example was when SAI Sr. lost the WRC because he couldn't start his car with the finish line in sight!!!). And ALO sometimes feels too much like SAI Sr. That's when I start to think that being an Alonso fan has gone from epic to masochistic.

That's why, right now, I prefer not to make major changes to the team. There have been enough. The only change I want is for the car to work properly, once and for all. I don't want any more problems. Otherwise, we'll end up putting ALO in intensive care over the winter to keep him from aging.

I think with the technical signings they just need time to get organized. And in the meantime, leaving them alone, I think, is the best thing to do. I'm confident they'll surprise us soon. Oremus ...

[zoroastar]

Genuinely curious about the Mercedes hype. All the big hitters have left. They still can't build a winning car in these regs. The engine is not the best or even most reliable. They don't have a 2 year head stsrt and unlimited money to burn.

I honestly see next year as Aston Martin vs McLaren. These are the teams with everyone and everything in place already with the big names who made serious contributions to their previous teams being so successful.

Mercedes had a year's head start on Honda and Red Bull and a several year's head start on Audi. When they had a head start last time, the car did not matter at all.

I still have flashbacks (nightmares) of the 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix. After a late safety car period, Hamilton and Rosberg turned up their engines and no team was within 2 seconds a lap of them. For the rest of the season, the team intentionally nerfed its peak power so that the FIA wouldn't intervene. It enjoyed a monopoly from 2014-2016.

Do I think next year's regulations will be as much of an engine formula as it was at the beginnning of 2014? Probably not, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't think engines won't matter much at the beginning of these regulations.

is all engine development included in the teams budget cap?

i could see a situation this time around where mercedes is using its past successes to try and retain the best driver lineup it can going into 26. along with keeping its customer base full. this time around were dealing with the same ICU and the differentiator will be who can mate that with the battery power. i just dont see them having a 2014 type advantage over everyone. maybe ive just been jaded by how many times mercedes have claimed to be on top of the current regs, only to get more of the same. also, how much of the current rumors are built on their past success? and the opposite of honda. how mch are people looking back at the 2015 mclaren to draw their conclusions about them. hopefully f1 and the FIA have learned how NOT to inhibit engine manufacturers from catching up. it could be a mess with the spending cap this time, with teams having to fix their engines at the expense of not developing their chassis. and customer teams could have a big advantage in that area. being able to spend their time and money developing their aero instead of making the power unit be competitive.

[Nikosar]

Reported by AMuS

Adrian Newey on Max Verstappen:
“If we want to attract Max, the first thing we need to do is build a fast car.”

They also add “”Now at Aston Martin, Newey is clear about the team’s priorities — and bringing Max could be part of the plan.””

Question is if they manage to build a fast car, then why Max ? One of the greatest drivers of all time nothing to say but the current grid have Russel, Sainz, Hadjar and list goes on. They would still win and spend probably half of what they will have to pay for Max.

[Rikhart]

Reported by AMuS

Adrian Newey on Max Verstappen:
“If we want to attract Max, the first thing we need to do is build a fast car.”

They also add “”Now at Aston Martin, Newey is clear about the team’s priorities — and bringing Max could be part of the plan.””

Question is if they manage to build a fast car, then why Max ? One of the greatest drivers of all time nothing to say but the current grid have Russel, Sainz, Hadjar and list goes on. They would still win and spend probably half of what they will have to pay for Max.

Is this a rhetorical question? Because he is the best driver, and pushes cars to things no other driver could, just look at last year's championship...

[zoroastar]

Reported by AMuS

Adrian Newey on Max Verstappen:
“If we want to attract Max, the first thing we need to do is build a fast car.”

They also add “”Now at Aston Martin, Newey is clear about the team’s priorities — and bringing Max could be part of the plan.””

Question is if they manage to build a fast car, then why Max ? One of the greatest drivers of all time nothing to say but the current grid have Russel, Sainz, Hadjar and list goes on. They would still win and spend probably half of what they will have to pay for Max.

Is this a rhetorical question? Because he is the best driver, and pushes cars to things no other driver could, just look at last year's championship...

i cant think of a more boring thing to happen to f1 as having max in another dominant car. leclerc deserves it more than max. prove me wrong

[diffuser]

Genuinely curious about the Mercedes hype. All the big hitters have left. They still can't build a winning car in these regs. The engine is not the best or even most reliable. They don't have a 2 year head stsrt and unlimited money to burn.

I honestly see next year as Aston Martin vs McLaren. These are the teams with everyone and everything in place already with the big names who made serious contributions to their previous teams being so successful.

Mercedes had a year's head start on Honda and Red Bull and a several year's head start on Audi. When they had a head start last time, the car did not matter at all.

I still have flashbacks (nightmares) of the 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix. After a late safety car period, Hamilton and Rosberg turned up their engines and no team was within 2 seconds a lap of them. For the rest of the season, the team intentionally nerfed its peak power so that the FIA wouldn't intervene. It enjoyed a monopoly from 2014-2016.

Do I think next year's regulations will be as much of an engine formula as it was at the beginnning of 2014? Probably not, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't think engines won't matter much at the beginning of these regulations.

is all engine development included in the teams budget cap?

i could see a situation this time around where mercedes is using its past successes to try and retain the best driver lineup it can going into 26. along with keeping its customer base full. this time around were dealing with the same ICU and the differentiator will be who can mate that with the battery power. i just dont see them having a 2014 type advantage over everyone. maybe ive just been jaded by how many times mercedes have claimed to be on top of the current regs, only to get more of the same. also, how much of the current rumors are built on their past success? and the opposite of honda. how mch are people looking back at the 2015 mclaren to draw their conclusions about them. hopefully f1 and the FIA have learned how NOT to inhibit engine manufacturers from catching up. it could be a mess with the spending cap this time, with teams having to fix their engines at the expense of not developing their chassis. and customer teams could have a big advantage in that area. being able to spend their time and money developing their aero instead of making the power unit be competitive.

There is a seperate CAP for PU Manufacturers. So that is Honda's alone, think its 150 million. AM F1 will pay 7 or 8 Million a year for standard assortment of PUs(that includes PUs for testing and the season). There was a minimum charge of 7Million and that's what they Pay Merc. With Merc you have to pay for Xtra PUs(more that the F1 season limit).

[diffuser]

Reported by AMuS

Adrian Newey on Max Verstappen:
“If we want to attract Max, the first thing we need to do is build a fast car.”

They also add “”Now at Aston Martin, Newey is clear about the team’s priorities — and bringing Max could be part of the plan.””

Question is if they manage to build a fast car, then why Max ? One of the greatest drivers of all time nothing to say but the current grid have Russel, Sainz, Hadjar and list goes on. They would still win and spend probably half of what they will have to pay for Max.

Is this a rhetorical question? Because he is the best driver, and pushes cars to things no other driver could, just look at last year's championship...

As much as I hate to admit it, AM F1 don't seem ready to attract the "Maxs" of F1. Just too many things to tweak. Only in the 3ird year, after Newey started with RBR, did they start to look like they could challenge.

[zoroastar]

Mercedes had a year's head start on Honda and Red Bull and a several year's head start on Audi. When they had a head start last time, the car did not matter at all.

I still have flashbacks (nightmares) of the 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix. After a late safety car period, Hamilton and Rosberg turned up their engines and no team was within 2 seconds a lap of them. For the rest of the season, the team intentionally nerfed its peak power so that the FIA wouldn't intervene. It enjoyed a monopoly from 2014-2016.

Do I think next year's regulations will be as much of an engine formula as it was at the beginnning of 2014? Probably not, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't think engines won't matter much at the beginning of these regulations.

is all engine development included in the teams budget cap?

i could see a situation this time around where mercedes is using its past successes to try and retain the best driver lineup it can going into 26. along with keeping its customer base full. this time around were dealing with the same ICU and the differentiator will be who can mate that with the battery power. i just dont see them having a 2014 type advantage over everyone. maybe ive just been jaded by how many times mercedes have claimed to be on top of the current regs, only to get more of the same. also, how much of the current rumors are built on their past success? and the opposite of honda. how mch are people looking back at the 2015 mclaren to draw their conclusions about them. hopefully f1 and the FIA have learned how NOT to inhibit engine manufacturers from catching up. it could be a mess with the spending cap this time, with teams having to fix their engines at the expense of not developing their chassis. and customer teams could have a big advantage in that area. being able to spend their time and money developing their aero instead of making the power unit be competitive.

There is a seperate CAP for PU Manufacturers. So that is Honda's alone, think its 150 million. AM F1 will pay 7 or 8 Million a year for standard assortment of PUs(that includes PUs for testing and the season). There was a minimum charge of 7Million and that's what they Pay Merc. With Merc you have to pay for Xtra PUs(more that the F1 season limit).

ok thank you. i think i already knew that but it fell out of my brain at some point haha. we havent had to discuss power units development that much for a couple of years

[Waz]

The other point of signing the top driver is so that you aren't competing against him.

[diffuser]

The other point of signing the top driver is so that you aren't competing against him.

You can only sign 2 drivers max. You can’t sign Norris, Piastri, Max, Hamilton, Leclerc, Sainz Russell, etc. The difference between the top tier of drivers is too small to overcome the differences in equipment your gonna get in equipment in the next 3 to 7 years.

[diffuser]

[Farnborough]

The other point of signing the top driver is so that you aren't competing against him.

You can only sign 2 drivers max. You can’t sign Norris, Piastri, Max, Hamilton, Leclerc, Sainz Russell, etc. The difference between the top tier of drivers is too small to overcome the differences in equipment your gonna get in equipment in the next 3 to 7 years.

It can be a big impact though, with the last 15 WDC (taking out Rosberg) being "owned" by only 3 drivers. Certainly good if you're in possession of that tenacity and skill in the foreseeable future.

[diffuser]

The other point of signing the top driver is so that you aren't competing against him.

You can only sign 2 drivers max. You can’t sign Norris, Piastri, Max, Hamilton, Leclerc, Sainz Russell, etc. The difference between the top tier of drivers is too small to overcome the differences in equipment your gonna get in equipment in the next 3 to 7 years.

It can be a big impact though, with the last 15 WDC (taking out Rosberg) being "owned" by only 3 drivers. Certainly good if you're in possession of that tenacity and skill in the foreseeable future.

Sorry bud wrong stat...How many of those were won by less than 100 points? Maybe one or two if you exclude drivers from the same team being the next closest driver in points? 100 points is Huge! Means that the winning driver could have sat out the last 4 races and still won....It also means that if they would have paired Lance with a worse driver than him, he still would have Managed to win atleast half those WDCs.