2025 McLaren F1 Team

[avantman]

0.05 to 0.1 of a second. Oscar qualified with a 1.11.1 didn’t he?

Since Montreal is considered as fuel hungry circuit, fuel for extra push lap and one in lap would be 3 extra kilos or so. That would be 0.1s or so in terms of lap time .
So, his corrected first push lap time set in Q3 would be 1:11.173
He set 1:11.120 in the end, but that is being more than 0.2s down on Norris after turn 6.
Also, Lando set 1:11.599 on 7 laps old soft, on his 3 push lap attempt on that set. Quite telling what the potential was/
No doubts much better result was possible.
Switching to different compound for the 2nd push lap isn't easy to having proper references. Mclaren drivers underperform in quali this year and lack confidence, that's why they refused to go for it I guess.

[BMMR61]

Ill say it to the end of time. Mclaren needs special conditions to be the best car just like last years car. Oscar Piastri is making the difference this year.

I'd say the opposite, that in special circumstances the McLaren isn't the best car. The 24 race weekends at different types of tracks and variable temperature and weather produces a real test so that at the end of the year it should be clear who has the best car.

and do you really think Mclaren was not the best car in Canada? What special conditions are you referring to? Mclaren had the car good enough to win every race this year, wet or dry, cool or hot. Most definitely they made a very big and costly strategical mistake of not qualifying on medium. On soft they were the fastest car easily despite both drivers not driving well this weekend. Norris was quite clearly again faster than Piastri during the race and was looking after his tires better. The tragedy of Mclaren this year is their faster driver near always starts behind and fights through traffic.

Yes, I do REALLY think McLaren was not (quite) the best car here. Friday difficult. Saturday getting near the pace but Mercedes looked the class. Race day the Mercedes on full load had the pace, George was massaging the gap to keep Max in check, McLaren were a little awkward with full tanks, we've seen it before. Later on light load and rubbered track the McLarens were getting close to Russell's speed.What makes you think both drivers (Lando error excepted) didn't drive well? Are you suggesting Kimi is at this stage of his development, faster than Oscar? Sounds a bit far fetched, but that's a theory you would need.

Special circuit conditions? The Canadian circuit has a low grip coefficient, has for as long as I remember. Maybe it's the grain size of the surface, plus usually the low temperatures make it so. A lot of trees and long (cooling air) straights make the tyre heat equation move towards the Mercedes preferences.

The whole homogenous idea of fastest car is a fantasy that many have. Even in the days of 0.5+ second differences in qualifying, the differences at different tracks and in qual v race pace was enough to provide different winners. Today we have the top 6 drivers often within 0.3 and top 3 drivers within 0.1. The variables of racing aren't down to the drivers "not driving well", not at this level. Your veiled argument that Lando is the faster driver is a generalisation, certainly some weekends he is, others not. There are former F1 drivers saying Oscar is driving at a very high level, I agree based on what I see. If he doesn't win every race it doesn't mean he messed up, McLaren don't have that sort of advantage that Max had in 2023, not to knock Max.

[Darth-Piekus]

Wanted to add something regarding the whole comparison of Oscar with Max. People forgot that Max last year had the best car in the first part of the season by a second sometimes and no second driver in the same team was allowed to compete with him. He got 8 wins out of the first 10 races if Im correct in a rocketship of a car. Oscar Piastri this year has equally good stats and driving as good as Max if you take the fact that the car isn't that much faster than the rest compared to the Red Bull rocketship of last year and having actual competition inside his team. Compare Piastri in his third year with Max's third year and you can clearly see that Oscar is already a better driver.

Before someone replies I have to mention that I respect if someone has a different opinion. I happen not to agree.

[chrisc90]

Wanted to add something regarding the whole comparison of Oscar with Max. People forgot that Max last year had the best car in the first part of the season by a second sometimes and no second driver in the same team was allowed to compete with him. He got 8 wins out of the first 10 races if Im correct in a rocketship of a car. Oscar Piastri this year has equally good stats and driving as good as Max if you take the fact that the car isn't that much faster than the rest compared to the Red Bull rocketship of last year and having actual competition inside his team. Compare Piastri in his third year with Max's third year and you can clearly see that Oscar is already a better driver.

Before someone replies I have to mention that I respect if someone has a different opinion. I happen not to agree.

That’s what happens when you ha a a car 1/2 second a lap over your rivals though. Same situation for any team/driver

[Darth-Piekus]

Its what happens in today's age. The last real champions who could bring a slower car in a championship positions were Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonnen. After those years the car pretty much dictates the pace.

[venkyhere]

Compare Piastri in his third year with Max's third year and you can clearly see that Oscar is already a better driver.

Driving a Renault engined walrus of a car in 2016, in his 2nd year in F1, at the age of 18, Brazil GP happened (even ignoring the Spain GP victory in his first senior Redbull race). Piastri has shown nothing like Brazil 2016 or even the more recent Brazil 2024 ; where the 'driving skill' rather than car capability was the difference maker.
Let Oscar show some 'mastery' like that, and then we will include him in the same bracket as Verstappen, before declaring him to be 'better than'.

[Wynters]

Has he had the opportunity of being in the second fastest car (16 podiums and 468 points is not bad for a "Walrus" car), on better tyres than everybody on a soaking track? I think it's pretty clear that Piastri already has the measure of Norris. If we compare early years, Piastri hasn't had anything like Verstappen's problems with car control. People describe him as "clinical" rather than "dangerous" or "sore loser". Nor has he been humbled over multiple years by his teammate (Ricciardo), despite being in F1 for so short a time and under much higher pressure. If you think about Piastri's excellent Norris overtake at Monza last year or in Miami, where Piastri's faked out Verstappen so hard that the Dutchman had to pay $120 just to get back into the stadium, it's hard not to see Piastri as having a much better F1 trajectory than Verstappen so far. If Piastri actually wins the WDC this year then...

[Darth-Piekus]

Driving a Renault engined walrus of a car in 2016, in his 2nd year in F1, at the age of 18, Brazil GP happened (even ignoring the Spain GP victory in his first senior Redbull race). Piastri has shown nothing like Brazil 2016 or even the more recent Brazil 2024 ; where the 'driving skill' rather than car capability was the difference maker.
Let Oscar show some 'mastery' like that, and then we will include him in the same bracket as Verstappen, before declaring him to be 'better than'.

You forgot 2023 and how he beat Max driving a Red Bull rocketship with his much inferior Mclaren in Qatar Sprint. You also conveniently forgot how he had lots of DNFs from crashes with other drivers to the point he got a nickname. Piastri was much more stable as a driver. Wynters above even gave a better example. Perhaps you might start recognising his trajectory once he wins this years WDC.

[PikeStance]

I didn't read all of the comments. I was at the track. I was at a 45-degree angle to Norris' crash. I was unlucky as I videoed the previous lap. I honestly thought Norris was trying to get the best possible angle into turn 1. A lot of cars hugged the outside line. From my vantage point, I can see both cars approaching the final chicane. Then I lose track of them until they are halfway to the finish line. I just noted it was Norris on the outside when he passed, and then bam. It looks like if you lit a match, but it didn't flame, it just sparked.

I do not know what was up with Piastri. He could not get any pace. Norris on the hand almost felt inevitable he would catch Russel. At the track, they give you the distance to the leader. That number went down on virtually every lap.

Personally, I disagree with Stella. Norris was quicker and he should have been allowed to pass Piastri. As far as I am concerned, it is not even halftime yet. You never pull back before halftime. You pile on the points. Car upgrades can easily mean that huge lead can dwindle. Heck, McLaren is a case study for that last year. I am not sure if Norris could have overtaken Russel, but he definitely had the pace to pass Kimi and Max. He would have most likely lost time and laps getting passed both.

Ultimately, this is Norris sabotaging his championship by not putting together a solid Q3. If he had been in the front row, Norris would have run away with this one by at least 15 seconds. This is just my observation looking at the distance to Russel on the board. I do not know the actual lap times.

[Darth-Piekus]

Any news about any upgrade package for Austria?

[BMMR61]

I didn't read all of the comments. I was at the track. I was at a 45-degree angle to Norris' crash. I was unlucky as I videoed the previous lap. I honestly thought Norris was trying to get the best possible angle into turn 1. A lot of cars hugged the outside line. From my vantage point, I can see both cars approaching the final chicane. Then I lose track of them until they are halfway to the finish line. I just noted it was Norris on the outside when he passed, and then bam. It looks like if you lit a match, but it didn't flame, it just sparked.

I do not know what was up with Piastri. He could not get any pace. Norris on the hand almost felt inevitable he would catch Russel. At the track, they give you the distance to the leader. That number went down on virtually every lap.

Personally, I disagree with Stella. Norris was quicker and he should have been allowed to pass Piastri. As far as I am concerned, it is not even halftime yet. You never pull back before halftime. You pile on the points. Car upgrades can easily mean that huge lead can dwindle. Heck, McLaren is a case study for that last year. I am not sure if Norris could have overtaken Russel, but he definitely had the pace to pass Kimi and Max. He would have most likely lost time and laps getting passed both.

Ultimately, this is Norris sabotaging his championship by not putting together a solid Q3. If he had been in the front row, Norris would have run away with this one by at least 15 seconds. This is just my observation looking at the distance to Russel on the board. I do not know the actual lap times.

I think it's not unreasonable to say Lando had a more optimum strategy, not to say he didn't handle it very well. The two McLarens were never on the same or similar delta, fair to say that Lando enjoyed more clear air, and Oscar had a very unlucky run through traffic in the last stint. Every time he drew close to Kimi he got blocked by a lapped car. The pace between the two was pretty close - of the order of 0.1 seconds a lap average. Nobody was going to challenge Russell and getting past Kimi was always going to be tough, that car had a new PU and he was driving better the further the race went. I agree with most else you say, but the Mercedes was the class this weekend from day 1. Only on the fully rubbered track and on low fuel was the McLaren a match.

[mwillems]

There is some truth to that, but I do think Oscar also had a sub par weekend. Lando had the opportunity to start on hards and run his own race and build an attack whereas Oscar couldn't do that. His strategy was based around retaining his position or trying to make ground but unfortunately he lost a place. He was legitimately good for 3rd and had that have been the case, Lando might've got 4th. For their own reasons, neither shone this weekend but we'll go again and I'm sure we'll do well.