2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[Otromundo]

Thanks for the replies. The best explanation I've found for how it works is the following:

"The system functions by increasing front wheel toe-in during suspension dive under braking, enhancing stability on corner entry, and returning to a neutral toe as the suspension squats under acceleration, improving traction on corner exit."

Still, these issues are beyond my knowledge, and that's why I'd like to fully understand them. And one of the current problems is that there is so much information, so much, that in the end I have a hard time figuring out what's real.

[makecry]

I don’t understand why people are wasting time discussing Otmar and Krack

[FNTC]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/fernando- ... -f1-career

"Alonso concedes the Austrian Grand Prix may not suit his Aston Martin AMR25, but he’s hopeful for the British Grand Prix at Silverstone as Aston Martin will bring upgrades to their home race.

“Silverstone has me curious, to see how the car behaves there with fast corners — especially being the home GP with the factory nearby,” he said. “I think Austria might be a bit tougher.

“Of the next double header, Silverstone is where we have more hopes and where we expect to bring some new parts."

[-wkst-]

Let's see if the updated Mercedes rear suspension will/can be used. Would be interesting to know if they are allowed to use it first of all. If so, does it fit the philosophy of the car and moreover at which time they got a modell for the tunnel to compare it to the rest of the car (Mercedes had it on track in Imola). That's the clear disadvantage of being a customer.

[-wkst-]

Very interesting article about the work of Newey so far at AMR.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/six- ... n-f1-team/

[TyreSlip]

Very interesting article about the work of Newey so far at AMR.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/six- ... n-f1-team/

What stood out to me was how Newey said people were working in silos, whereas the factory was supposed to be designed for easy communication among teams and departments. Who dropped the ball on this one before Newey arrived?

[Mattchu]

What stood out to me was how Newey said people were working in silos, whereas the factory was supposed to be designed for easy communication among teams and departments. Who dropped the ball on this one before Newey arrived?

It was Andy Cowell who said "People use the word silos. Have we got a silo mentality culture?"

He then explains Newey has tried to incorporate everyone together as a team with one goal, focus on the race car and making it better.
The ingredients (including budget) are there, it`ll just take time...

[diffuser]

Let's see if the updated Mercedes rear suspension will/can be used. Would be interesting to know if they are allowed to use it first of all. If so, does it fit the philosophy of the car and moreover at which time they got a modell for the tunnel to compare it to the rest of the car (Mercedes had it on track in Imola). That's the clear disadvantage of being a customer.

It's for sale, AMF1 just has to buy it.

[diffuser]

Very interesting article about the work of Newey so far at AMR.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/six- ... n-f1-team/

What stood out to me was how Newey said people were working in silos, whereas the factory was supposed to be designed for easy communication among teams and departments. Who dropped the ball on this one before Newey arrived?

You know if they had won the last 3 driver championships, they wouldn't of needed nor hired Newey.

[-wkst-]

Let's see if the updated Mercedes rear suspension will/can be used. Would be interesting to know if they are allowed to use it first of all. If so, does it fit the philosophy of the car and moreover at which time they got a modell for the tunnel to compare it to the rest of the car (Mercedes had it on track in Imola). That's the clear disadvantage of being a customer.

It's for sale, AMF1 just has to buy it.

And you have access to the contract, which says at which point an in-season upgrade must be available for AMR/Williams? I guess its a bit more complicated than "just buy and use it".

Especially in terms of integration/aero philosophy. Mercedes develops their car in this direction for months naturally. AMR or Williams have to adapt (and were not always happy in the past...).

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

Let's see if the updated Mercedes rear suspension will/can be used. Would be interesting to know if they are allowed to use it first of all. If so, does it fit the philosophy of the car and moreover at which time they got a modell for the tunnel to compare it to the rest of the car (Mercedes had it on track in Imola). That's the clear disadvantage of being a customer.

It's for sale, AMF1 just has to buy it.

And you have access to the contract, which says at which point an in-season upgrade must be available for AMR/Williams? I guess its a bit more complicated than "just buy and use it".

Especially in terms of integration/aero philosophy. Mercedes develops their car in this direction for months naturally. AMR or Williams have to adapt (and were not always happy in the past...).

They get all information from the Mercedes, so they already have those information, test results approximately months ago. As we see they still use the same "---" rear gearbox, suspension ,but they definitely found something what brings them in the right direction and I can tell you is nothing to do with Mercedes parts .

[Tommy Cookers]

"I didn't understand how having the separation of the a-arms causes the toe change."
Same for me.
Theres many errors and should therefore not be used as definitive in my view.
Starting by noting with colours identification of arms .... lists "trackod" while showing the pullrod link to suspension spring medium !!!
Next he identified the "separated" lower wishbone by pointing to one of the wishbone links and then the real "trackrod" which is the steering link and not "locating" the upright for load, just steering the upright !!!
By that presentation, I don't know if anyone can draw technical conclusion. Its significantly far away from decent analysis in many direction.

Reality though .... if one of the wishbone is split at its outer end (it's hard to see in those image) with their respective locations not stacked directly one above the other but distributed along the chassis direction, then turning the steering results in that end (top or bottom position) moving the upright axis in an arc, this pushes the upright inward or outward in relation to the chassis, then by having the steering rack as constant it will alter the toe geometry by this method.

Theres good uillstration of this in Audi (from original 8 platform early 90s) of splitting the top wishbone to do exactly this. The top wishbone separate with longitudinal separate outer locations for each. Turning the steering "folds" those two pivot along each other to not only shift the arms as it moves, but pivots the upright in firstly a tighter more confined space resulting in less "displacement" of the wheel while turned ( could be useful in F1 for less aero interferance) but also shifting steering geometry as it does this. That 8 chassis also driving front wheels for 4WD and so has useful benefit in that aspect to them.
There's other influence (weight distribution) in that example, but common observation is it lacks steering feel for driver though :D

quoting to capture this (convenient for me)
I remember Arthur Mallock's hostility to toe and other power-consuming features (in the Formula Junior days)

[diffuser]

Let's see if the updated Mercedes rear suspension will/can be used. Would be interesting to know if they are allowed to use it first of all. If so, does it fit the philosophy of the car and moreover at which time they got a modell for the tunnel to compare it to the rest of the car (Mercedes had it on track in Imola). That's the clear disadvantage of being a customer.

It's for sale, AMF1 just has to buy it.

And you have access to the contract, which says at which point an in-season upgrade must be available for AMR/Williams? I guess its a bit more complicated than "just buy and use it".

Especially in terms of integration/aero philosophy. Mercedes develops their car in this direction for months naturally. AMR or Williams have to adapt (and were not always happy in the past...).

I thought the "TRANSFERABLE COMPONENTS (TRC)" fell under the same regs as the PU. In that all upgrades must made available. I couldn't find it in the regs for TRCs. Merc has in the past but that doesn't guarantee they will this time.

[diffuser]

It's for sale, AMF1 just has to buy it.

And you have access to the contract, which says at which point an in-season upgrade must be available for AMR/Williams? I guess its a bit more complicated than "just buy and use it".

Especially in terms of integration/aero philosophy. Mercedes develops their car in this direction for months naturally. AMR or Williams have to adapt (and were not always happy in the past...).

They get all information from the Mercedes, so they already have those information, test results approximately months ago. As we see they still use the same "---" rear gearbox, suspension ,but they definitely found something what brings them in the right direction and I can tell you is nothing to do with Mercedes parts .

It was interesting to note that the data from Canada quali showed that they were gaining time in all the sectors from the traction zones. They were top two interaction zone acceleration. They were losing time under braking, which was a surprise. Initially, I thought it had something to do with the curbs but they also lost time going into the hairpin. The other thing was that the exit of the hairpin was the only traction zone Hamilton out performed Alonso on.

[-wkst-]

It's for sale, AMF1 just has to buy it.

And you have access to the contract, which says at which point an in-season upgrade must be available for AMR/Williams? I guess its a bit more complicated than "just buy and use it".

Especially in terms of integration/aero philosophy. Mercedes develops their car in this direction for months naturally. AMR or Williams have to adapt (and were not always happy in the past...).

I thought the "TRANSFERABLE COMPONENTS (TRC)" fell under the same regs as the PU. In that all upgrades must made available. I couldn't find it in the regs for TRCs. Merc has in the past but that doesn't guarantee they will this time.

The rules of TRC can bee seen in the fia regulations, but - different to the PU - no such rule exists.

It's up to the 2 parties what they agree to.