2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[GrizzleBoy]

He is protecting the team. 100%
2 seconds slower with 40Kg of fuel less. Only with Ferrari.
Ferrari spent half a year developing a new suspension, only to find out that it doesn't work...
They are so bad. it is painful to watch.

You mean like Mercedes who went back to their previous suspension and found pace again?

Do you really think that Ferrari needed a filming day, a whole weekend at Spa, three practice sessions at the Hungaroring and half a race distance to suddenly find out that their suspension doesn’t work?

Ferrari is struggling with the plank wear.

On lap 9, we heard Charles say over the radio: ‘What's going on with these cuts?’

He was asked to use FS1 mode (This mode reduces RPM by approximately 300 and the Vmax by 7 to 8 km/h before T1).

same situation on lap 27. Mode FS1

He was asked to use less kerb, exit turn 11 (for the plank)

First stop, they upped the tyre pressure. Second stop, they increase the tyre pressure even more.

https://twitter.com/The_F1Whisperer/sta ... 4529399855

On Sky Antony Davidson showed the camera feed from Piastris nosecam from the race start .

Just from the short run to turn one at the start, Charles car was already kicking up tonnes of plank dust and sparking.

That's without the any of the aero surfaces being fully loaded.

[GrizzleBoy]

The only frustrating thing in all of this is that in an engineering forum people start with a biased opinion and then proceed to include either no data or only the data they care about so long as it justifies the opinion, and usually it’s random interviews and body language.

The Team threads ceased to be an "engineering forum" a long time ago.... But yeah, I agree with you.

If this was still an engineering forum, some of the most active members won't be here. This forum is just like the general f1 fanbase now......

To be fair, this new reg set and cost cap era has been the most boring for me when it comes to this forum.

I used to live in the car Threads and check each thread for updates on every car, because cars would evolve in meaningful ways that made sense in pictures.

Now, I just dont care anymore.

Teams change their car, nothing happens.

Another team makes the same change, amazing things happen.

Big changes.

Small changes.

Most meaningful change for a long time is invisible. Half a decade in and teams are still just trying to understand how to make these regs work at a basic level.

Its terrible for fans really do like to discuss the tech scale bits when none of what makes the biggest difference is really available to us.

[ismail1991]

The Team threads ceased to be an "engineering forum" a long time ago.... But yeah, I agree with you.

If this was still an engineering forum, some of the most active members won't be here. This forum is just like the general f1 fanbase now......

To be fair, this new reg set and cost cap era has been the most boring for me when it comes to this forum.

I used to live in the car Threads and check each thread for updates on every car, because cars would evolve in meaningful ways that made sense in pictures.

Now, I just dont care anymore.

Teams change their car, nothing happens.

Another team makes the same change, amazing things happen.

Big changes.

Small changes.

Most meaningful change for a long time is invisible. Half a decade in and teams are still just trying to understand how to make these regs work at a basic level.

Its terrible for fans really do like to discuss the tech scale bits when none of what makes the biggest difference is really available to us.

I definitely agree. We use to try to find the differences in front wings and bargeboards . Teams would do some changes every 3-4 races. Now with this ground effect cars, it is just a mystery. I blame ross brawn for this. He promised much closer racing but we only got in 2022 and now even at races like Spa you cant overtake. Before drivers was minding fuel and tyres. Now they mind tires fuel and floor. Unbeliavable

[dans79]

I definitely agree. We use to try to find the differences in front wings and bargeboards . Teams would do some changes every 3-4 races. Now with this ground effect cars, it is just a mystery. I blame ross brawn for this. He promised much closer racing but we only got in 2022 and now even at races like Spa you cant overtake. Before drivers was minding fuel and tyres. Now they mind tires fuel and floor. Unbeliavable

It started well before that, Teams used to be able to pick what compounds they wanted for a weakened, and how many of each they wanted. That was apparently to complicated for fans to understand, so it got dumbed down to 3 compounds, and the same for everyone.

They removed hydraulics from the suspension system, hence why a lot of cars looked like a child's Radio Flyer wagon bouncing over the curbs through turns 6 & 7 today.

It goes on and on, everything has been dumbed down and simplified for the sake of the show.................

[SB15]

If you would have the real knowledge of an engineer, you would never write all these...
You suggest, that all these simple things and knowledge eludes the engineers of the entire Mercedes and Ferrari F1 team? LOL
Also this pull rod vs push rod nonsense is so laughable... this is like the loch ness monster which still exists in the minds of such "believers"... people start point at them whatever happens, like they are the great differentiators... Please stop this nonsense.

From @MercedesAMGGTR on X

Link: https://x.com/mercedesamgtr/status/1947 ... 72160?s=46

While Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari have switched to Pullrod suspension on the front axle, Mercedes still uses Pushrod suspension. James Allison explained why:

"We might get better results with the pullrod, but it's not the best thing for us at this point. If we're going to spend time and money there, we'll have to cut back elsewhere."

"Other issues were our priority. The potential lap time gain was not worth the effort.”

#F1 #Mercedes #TeknikAnaliz #Pullrod #Pushrod


Again Push vs Pull is not nonsense depending on the type of car it is.

But they are fairly clearly stating that any gains are too small to be worth bothering with.

So it's certainly not any kind of evidence that this aspect of Ferrari's suspension is the major problem.

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

[f1316]

He is protecting the team. 100%
2 seconds slower with 40Kg of fuel less. Only with Ferrari.
Ferrari spent half a year developing a new suspension, only to find out that it doesn't work...
They are so bad. it is painful to watch.

Where are you getting 40kgs from? There’s no chance they went that light, that’s crazy, not even possible.

We don’t know what exactly what the issue is and it’s clearly not easy to solve, or they would have done so. Hindsight is 20/20 but perhaps going for the one stop would have actually been the way to go since it required a gentler approach that might have been more conducive to saving plank wear? Impossible to know.

What we do seem to know (as much as is knowable) is that there is a fundamental flaw with this car that they can’t solve. My assumption is that they went aggressive this year - much the same as McLaren did, so conceptually not the wrong idea - but didn’t get it right and left themselves in an irredeemable situation. I can’t help but remember Cardile saying that the importance of the suspension has been overemphasised in these regulations and that seems incredibly naive in retrospect and may well be the root of Ferrari’s issues.

The key thing to hope for now is that the 2026 engine is up to snuff as that has the potential to be the main performance differentiator next year and has nothing to do with any of these issues.

Are you aware that F1 cars burn fuel? If they start with about 100 kg of fuel (the maximum is 110 kg), how much fuel do they have left in their tanks after 40-50 laps?

Well what does “ 40Kg of fuel less” mean? Less than what? It sounds like 40kg less than other cars, which would be madness. If you’re saying that this is 40kg less than that start of the race then, yes, that’s probably right, but what’s your point?

[DJ Downforce]

10 or so more races with these weird GE cars. And then to 2026 where we will have a dog of an engine

These cars are very weird, 0.01mm can put you out of the magic window. It's not like previous eras where the pecking order was a little more defined...

Seems the plank wear issue was major today, Ferrari had to throw lower engine modes and tyre pressures at it

Is this a case of not enough damping in the suspension, or a classic case in these regs of developing the aero map too low...

I have another question, how is it that the w13 could bounce and skate across the ground and didn't once get disqualified for plank wear...?

[SB15]

10 or so more races with these weird GE cars. And then to 2026 where we will have a dog of an engine

These cars are very weird, 0.01mm can put you out of the magic window. It's not like previous eras where the pecking order was a little more defined...

Seems the plank wear issue was major today, Ferrari had to throw lower engine modes and tyre pressures at it

Is this a case of not enough damping in the suspension, or a classic case in these regs of developing the aero map too low...

I have another question, how is it that the w13 could bounce and skate across the ground and didn't once get disqualified for plank wear...?

What's interesting is that the W14 did... So it could be a case of the CoG being really strong and the downforce being soo stable when really low that the Drivers don't really feel the plank being scrapped up as much. So that's not really an issue with the mechanics setting up the car because that's how a racing car is suppose to be setup, it's more like a fatal flaw with the ground effect philosophy and that the FIA didn't take into account about Plank Wear being a potential issue for these cars.

Next year, this shouldn't be an issue since their is next to no ground effect.

[sucof]

From @MercedesAMGGTR on X

Link: https://x.com/mercedesamgtr/status/1947 ... 72160?s=46

While Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari have switched to Pullrod suspension on the front axle, Mercedes still uses Pushrod suspension. James Allison explained why:

"We might get better results with the pullrod, but it's not the best thing for us at this point. If we're going to spend time and money there, we'll have to cut back elsewhere."

"Other issues were our priority. The potential lap time gain was not worth the effort.”

#F1 #Mercedes #TeknikAnaliz #Pullrod #Pushrod


Again Push vs Pull is not nonsense depending on the type of car it is.

But they are fairly clearly stating that any gains are too small to be worth bothering with.

So it's certainly not any kind of evidence that this aspect of Ferrari's suspension is the major problem.

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

You do not even understand that the quotes you put here are perfectly DISPROVING your statements???
They mean it is not because if you use pull or push rod! Also, your idea how pull vs push rod works is simply terrible... so far from reality.
I'll stop responding to you, but want to urge you to learn about what you are posting first.
Belief is NOT knowledge!! And all you have is beliefs. Suspension works entirely different than how you imagine.
And before you actually know what you are talking about, do not write about it. Thank you.

[Dee]

Someone posted this on Reddit after what Russell said, and I agree;

* Ferrari is well aware of their plank wear issue.
* They decide to go with a reduced ride height anyway to remain competitive and bank on luck such as safety cars, red flags, rain,etc to reduce the wear.
* If no extraordinary events occur, they are forced to make dramatic adjustments such as inflating the pressures, lift and coast to ensure the car remains legal by the end of the race

[Big Tea]

The Team threads ceased to be an "engineering forum" a long time ago.... But yeah, I agree with you.

If this was still an engineering forum, some of the most active members won't be here. This forum is just like the general f1 fanbase now......

To be fair, this new reg set and cost cap era has been the most boring for me when it comes to this forum.

I used to live in the car Threads and check each thread for updates on every car, because cars would evolve in meaningful ways that made sense in pictures.

Now, I just dont care anymore.

Teams change their car, nothing happens.

Another team makes the same change, amazing things happen.

Big changes.

Small changes.

Most meaningful change for a long time is invisible. Half a decade in and teams are still just trying to understand how to make these regs work at a basic level.

Its terrible for fans really do like to discuss the tech scale bits when none of what makes the biggest difference is really available to us.

Hit the nail smack on the head. I completely agree that sums it up nicely

[Seanspeed]

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

Ferrari's suspension definitely seems to be a big problem, but there's isn't much reason to believe the push vs pull aspect of it is the culprit specifically. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what point you're trying to make?

[Seanspeed]

Someone posted this on Reddit after what Russell said, and I agree;

* Ferrari is well aware of their plank wear issue.
* They decide to go with a reduced ride height anyway to remain competitive and bank on luck such as safety cars, red flags, rain,etc to reduce the wear.
* If no extraordinary events occur, they are forced to make dramatic adjustments such as inflating the pressures, lift and coast to ensure the car remains legal by the end of the race

Been theorized for much of the season already yea. The whole reason people were excited about the new suspension is that it was supposed to alleviate this problem, and allow them run lower without the plank wear fears, realizing their performance potential.

It's looking very much like it didn't work at all.

[MattLightBlue]

Someone posted this on Reddit after what Russell said, and I agree;

* Ferrari is well aware of their plank wear issue.
* They decide to go with a reduced ride height anyway to remain competitive and bank on luck such as safety cars, red flags, rain,etc to reduce the wear.
* If no extraordinary events occur, they are forced to make dramatic adjustments such as inflating the pressures, lift and coast to ensure the car remains legal by the end of the race

Been theorized for much of the season already yea. The whole reason people were excited about the new suspension is that it was supposed to alleviate this problem, and allow them run lower without the plank wear fears, realizing their performance potential.

It's looking very much like it didn't work at all.

It seems to me it did alleviate the problem, see performance in the last two races (which have been relatively cold weekends) and the setup they were forced to use in Austria to get the tires in the window.
However the issue is still there, embedded in car design. Probably yesterday they were expecting less plank wear and they had to improvise on extreme tyre pressure at the end.

[Sphere3758]

Someone posted this on Reddit after what Russell said, and I agree;

* Ferrari is well aware of their plank wear issue.
* They decide to go with a reduced ride height anyway to remain competitive and bank on luck such as safety cars, red flags, rain,etc to reduce the wear.
* If no extraordinary events occur, they are forced to make dramatic adjustments such as inflating the pressures, lift and coast to ensure the car remains legal by the end of the race

Been theorized for much of the season already yea. The whole reason people were excited about the new suspension is that it was supposed to alleviate this problem, and allow them run lower without the plank wear fears, realizing their performance potential.

It's looking very much like it didn't work at all.

It seems to me it did alleviate the problem, see performance in the last two races (which have been relatively cold weekends) and the setup they were forced to use in Austria to get the tires in the window.
However the issue is still there, embedded in car design. Probably yesterday they were expecting less plank wear and they had to improvise on extreme tyre pressure at the end.

Is there realtime feedback for the teams on plank wear or is it based on just guesswork ?