Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Hello. Most of you are probably aware that F1 teams have 1,000 or more employees. Many of these employees are focused on designing the cars. The designers seek greater performance while the association seeks to make the cars identical through more and more restrictive rules. This tug of war between the designers and the association is expensive and the designers lose because substantial improvements are banned.
Why not just make all the cars identical? Build all the cars to the same blueprint. The teams could make their own cars, or buy them from constructors.
This move would foster closer racing and save hundreds of millions of dollars. The savings could be passed on to us, the spectators, in the form of less expensive admissions and streaming fees.
I don't see where making 10,000s of people redundant reduces the hosting fee for a grand prix and therefor saves spectators money. Most people watch f1 over say indycar because it's a constructors championship - a technical arms race. I imagine you'll not get much traction for a spec series on a site where f1 nerds argue what some widget on a front wing endplate does
#aerogandalf "There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica
Hello. Most of you are probably aware that F1 teams have 1,000 or more employees. Many of these employees are focused on designing the cars. The designers seek greater performance while the association seeks to make the cars identical through more and more restrictive rules. This tug of war between the designers and the association is expensive and the designers lose because substantial improvements are banned.
Why not just make all the cars identical? Build all the cars to the same blueprint. The teams could make their own cars, or buy them from constructors.
This move would foster closer racing and save hundreds of millions of dollars. The savings could be passed on to us, the spectators, in the form of less expensive admissions and streaming fees.
We spectators would also enjoy closer racing.
There are plenty of spec series around the world where the cars are near identical that's not F1's DNA imo. If they turned it into another spec series I'd rarely bother watching a big part of its appeal is its arms race out smarting the rules finding something your opponents missed. I've lost interest in other series over the years where the cars have become too similar.
If anything I'd prefer to see more freedom in the rules a long the lines of what Zak Brown said a while ago you have a budget cap now keep in the cap do what you want - that's probably too broad but I'd agree with the over all idea what he said
I don't see where making 10,000s of people redundant reduces the hosting fee for a grand prix and therefor saves spectators money.
Quite right. The cost of going to a race at, for example, Silverstone is high because Liberty Media/FOG charge many millions of dollars to for the "privilege" of hosting an F1 race. That cost is directly recouped from the spectators who attend races in person - both in gate /seat prices and in the cost of comestibles bought at the event.
None of that ticket cost is determined by the salary or manufacturing costs associated with a Formula 1 team or the car they produce. If the teams cost less to run, they would still take the prize money and spread it out amongst their shareholders.
One possible benefit of a spec F1 series would be that you could have bigger grids because F1 would be in F2 ballpark costings (except maybe the powertrain cost, assuming a suitably powerful PU). Bigger grids can lead to more entertainment, especially as you'd get a bigger spread of talent across the grid and thus more chances of people tripping each other.
But the central idea that fewer team staff would make F1 cheaper for the punters is a red herring, I'm afraid.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
It's really difficult to take the Money out of the sport. It's what attracts the best talent. Newey said that the CAP has already sent some of the better minds to other interests.
F1 seems like it's in a pretty great spot financially at the moment. The best teams still stand out, but smaller teams aren't able to simply be outspent to oblivion. All while the lower spending cap means most everybody is making money.
You're describing turning F1 into a spec series. It would kill literally everything F1 has always been about.
I don't see where making 10,000s of people redundant reduces the hosting fee for a grand prix and therefor saves spectators money.
Quite right. The cost of going to a race at, for example, Silverstone is high because Liberty Media/FOG charge many millions of dollars to for the "privilege" of hosting an F1 race. That cost is directly recouped from the spectators who attend races in person - both in gate /seat prices and in the cost of comestibles bought at the event.
None of that ticket cost is determined by the salary or manufacturing costs associated with a Formula 1 team or the car they produce. If the teams cost less to run, they would still take the prize money and spread it out amongst their shareholders.
One possible benefit of a spec F1 series would be that you could have bigger grids because F1 would be in F2 ballpark costings (except maybe the powertrain cost, assuming a suitably powerful PU). Bigger grids can lead to more entertainment, especially as you'd get a bigger spread of talent across the grid and thus more chances of people tripping each other.
But the central idea that fewer team staff would make F1 cheaper for the punters is a red herring, I'm afraid.
When you turn up, or watch, read whatever, you are bombarded with advertising which is supposed to be funding the sport or event. They make us pay to go and look at their advertising.
I must add that it is not the providers that get this either, they have to pay to have the event and pay to put it on
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
Why not just make all the cars identical? Build all the cars to the same blueprint. The teams could make their own cars, or buy them from constructors.
Hello Alan and hello to the idea of NASCAR/V8 Supercars/Indycars!
Also, no thanks, it would defeat the point of F1 - a competition to build the best car - and lead to technical stagnation over the longer term like NASCAR running lead petrol through carburettors until as recently as 10-15 years ago (though some suppose overly prescriptive F1 chassis & power unit regulations already do that ).
Even in V8 Supercars, making all the cars identical (apart from manufacturer-specific body kits and engines that are supposed to be partitised to perform exactly the same) has already removed all interest from the sport compared to when teams could build & tune their own engines, design their own cars etc.
One possible benefit of a spec F1 series would be that you could have bigger grids because F1 would be in F2 ballpark costings (except maybe the powertrain cost, assuming a suitably powerful PU). Bigger grids can lead to more entertainment, especially as you'd get a bigger spread of talent across the grid and thus more chances of people tripping each other.
Surely the intermediate cost series, say spec V12 Cosworth cars, would be best served as a breakaway/second series for F1 reject drivers and for events that cannot afford F1 hosting fees (e.g., Adelaide, Sepang, Brands Hatch, Portimao, dropped circuits like Imola etc)?
I.e, not F1 but a new series that is faster than Indycar and F2, but more attractive to drivers than Formula E or WEC?
But then you have the problem of de Vries, Hartley and Zhou not being the same draw for spectators as Hamilton and Verstappen -- which is a tricky problem to overcome.
in the past, Ecclestone unleashed fury on such series, but hopefully Liberty Media would be more accommodating.
For reference, here are Superleauge Formula (Panoz-MCT V12) cars of such type:
And an onboard of a Superfund Formula car (Force 10-Judd V10) of such type:
Perhaps Red Bull could build the chassis (and indeed the Red Bull Ford V12 to power it) and run the series as a political measure to have leverage over FOM and Liberty Media for use when required?
Though by all means the 2004-2005 Cosworth V10 is still fully supported in terms of all parts (pistons, piston rings etc), so it may be simplest just to run the exact (very antiquated now!) historic 3.0 V10 which some F1 enthusiasts seem to like? Forget direct injection, turbulent jet injection or any other modern technology being used on a newer engine design?
But Red Bull have bizarrely done VERY, VERY, VERY poorly at promoting the World Rally Championship -- you'd think Red Bull would be good at that, but apparently not!
There are plenty of spec series around the world where the cars are near identical that's not F1's DNA imo. If they turned it into another spec series I'd rarely bother watching
Some say they want to find out who is truly the best driver. Surely that could be done by placing all the F1 drivers into identical Formula Regional cars (or indeed Formula Vee or Dacia Sanderos or whatever) on a Thursday morning of a GP meeting?
There are plenty of spec series around the world where the cars are near identical that's not F1's DNA imo. If they turned it into another spec series I'd rarely bother watching
Some say they want to find out who is truly the best driver. Surely that could be done by placing all the F1 drivers into identical Formula Regional cars (or indeed Formula Vee or Dacia Sanderos or whatever) on a Thursday morning of a GP meeting?
How well Drivers perform change from track to track. It will probably vary from reg to reg too.
There are plenty of spec series around the world where the cars are near identical that's not F1's DNA imo. If they turned it into another spec series I'd rarely bother watching
Some say they want to find out who is truly the best driver. Surely that could be done by placing all the F1 drivers into identical Formula Regional cars (or indeed Formula Vee or Dacia Sanderos or whatever) on a Thursday morning of a GP meeting?
How well Drivers perform change from track to track. It will probably vary from reg to reg too.
And who is managing the car and setup and all that matters a whole lot as well. Even in spec series, there are almost always better teams and worse teams.
There are plenty of spec series around the world where the cars are near identical that's not F1's DNA imo. If they turned it into another spec series I'd rarely bother watching
Some say they want to find out who is truly the best driver. Surely that could be done by placing all the F1 drivers into identical Formula Regional cars (or indeed Formula Vee or Dacia Sanderos or whatever) on a Thursday morning of a GP meeting?
I get that, and it has some interest but just it isn't what F1 is about as you said.
You said it too in a previous post here, I used to love the V8 Supercars but the more they turned them into the same car with a body kit the more my interest disappeared.
I wouldn't mind something like that though even if it was just few a few weekends a year having all the drivers in identical cars even if not for points. The top drivers are competitive enough I think to want to win. I wouldn't totally he against some points top 3 3,2,1 point so its not really a major effect the championship but in a close season its enough to keep drivers interested.
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