2025 McLaren F1 Team

[basti313]

I'm a little confused about the original intent of your post Basti.

Then I will try to explain it better:
The line of discussion for me was, that this DNF will be remembered, that it has impact. I do not think there is anything to remember or that I will remember (can not really speak for others) and this is the main intend of my post.

You used the plural "drivers" so appeared to include Oscar in your summation, a mistake in my opinion.

I agree with your explanation, but it has nothing to do what I think about remembering the season a DNF or any stellar performance. Maybe my wording "mediocre" is wrong or too low, but I simply do not see anything to remember. They are just driving it home. And that just also goes with Oscar. Yes, he shows a MUCH better performance than Lando. But with Imola, Japan, Canada...etc...just too many races where he was just not even second best or trying.

Somehow to some people, winning in the best car disqualifies one from greatness.

No. We saw greatness. Vettel 2013 with his perfection, Hamilton 2014 with also a nearly perfect season or Verstappen in 2023 with a nearly perfect execution. You can distinguish perfect execution from "just driving it home" even in a dominant car.

We are fortunate fans to see a dominant car driven by two drivers of similar speed, and allowed to compete for victory.

Are they? I think we were lucky to see fights like Hamilton vs. Rosberg in 2016, where Rosberg was scratching and biting as much as he could. And everyone remembers Malaysia or the last race. Or Verstappen vs. Hamilton in 2021 with Baku, Saudi and, of course, Abu. Maybe even 2018 where Vettel was at least scratching to the middle of the season with highlights like Spa until he ended the fight in the gravel. That were seasons to remember.

This season? I do not think they are allowed to race. Every time Oscar gets remotely close to Lando, he gets called back. He can not exploit his mojo in wheel-to-wheel racing. I do not think any of the above mentioned drivers would have stopped to dive bomb Lando in the slower car in Austria...
So, I do not call it a "fight" or "compete for victory" if they just "drive it home" with the Q result and a bad start.

[CjC]

A broken oil line was the reason for Landos DNF in Zandvoort.

They have had to sacrifice a small amount of laptime to beef up the part.

Still no news if he’s lost the engine yet as further analysis is needed but he’s switching to a different engine this weekend as planned.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/eigh ... talian-gp/

[GrizzleBoy]

I agree with Basti in a way.

Nobody will remember this race as a turning point, because even without Landos DNF, if Oscar wins the next race, he'd still have almost a whole race wins worth of points advantage. If he wins the next that's 30 points.

The last two times Lando clawed back points was from Oscar braking too hard during a safety car in Silverstone, or from being forced into a contra strategy because he was effectively off the podium in Hungary.

The last time Lando actually had pace on Oscar when it mattered was in Monaco about 8 Grand Prix ago! I'm not counting Austria because despite qualifying slower, Oscar was on Landos butt immediately and almost got in front of Lando on track after constant hounding. To the point where he had to be calmed down on the radio with subtle messaging. In the one time Lando was ahead for a long time, he still didnt look the faster driver on track.

For all this talk of a "comeback" for Lando, there never was one yet. Hes been consistently not faster overall for a large amount of concurrent races now and I dont really get the delusion.

Oscar has done enough to earn the status of top performer in the team amd the faster driver and I think anyone saying this DNF gives people the ability to say that its been a super close battle that just slipped Lando hasnt been paying attention.

And saying this DNF allows Lando to relax now, when he HAS to be perfect now if he still wants to win the WDC, is kind of an insult to Landos as a racing driver. I cant imagine any top driver ever saying they dont believe they can win the remaining races in a WDC battle if they actually have that belief that they really are the superior driver.

Luckily for Lando, there's not much to winning a WDC so let's go!

[haza]

Overall piastri has the edge but it’s not as if he’s running away and wiping the floor with his teammate they have both been most of the season right with each other the 4 standouts being Canada, Zandvoort, Melbourne and potentially Saudi both have shown cracks in the armour Norris mainly with his starts although oddly you go back 3-4 years an he was actually one of the drivers who’d make up positions at the start an then there’s the occasional brain fart when it comes to passing (Canada/Saudi passing Lewis but like piastri Norris has also pulled off some bold overtakes) piastri has on a few occasions gone for an overtake locked up and nearly knocked a wing (piastri has also had some really nice bold overtakes ie Saudi/melbourne on Lewis) but that could be him still learning being his 3rd season he might still abit green in some areas but you look at quali they’ve been within 1/2 tenths maximum most the season and in the race if they’re not fighting on track there finishing within 5-10 seconds of each other you’d be daft to write the championship off it can swing either way you have 2 drivers very similar in talent and as we seen last week it takes only one race to swing it in another direction look at Abu Dhabi last year when piastri got punted off at turn 1 or max in Austria this year an incident like that or a mechanical issue is all it takes. personally I cannot make up my mind on who’s gonna come out on top part of me says piastri based off his performance and current position in the standings but the other part of me says this is F1 an it can through a curve ball at anytime and usually does I’m glad we have an intra team battle for the title and even better it’s McLaren most teams wouldn’t even be having this discussion

[mwillems]

Recent form tells a different story. Lando had a notable upswing immediately before his Dutch DNF, with wins in both Austria and Britain and a strong showing in Hungary. Those results werent just luck—he consistently outperformed Oscar in several races and was closing on Oscar in the championship.

Lando received a front suspension update that McLaren tailored for him. The adjustment improved his confidence at the limit—something Lando has said helped him be more comfortable and get the most from the car under pressure, especially in the key moments of a qualifying lap or tight battles.

It's clear the change delivered a setup that matched his style much better—with consistent podiums and wins leading up to Zandvoort. The narrative about "no comeback" doesn't hold up when you consider the combination of technical updates and confident driving and the closing gap in the standings.

If anything, Lando's DNF was a setback after looking every bit the championship contender. Whether he is able to see it through and whether he has any more driving "moments" I don't know, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't close that gap.

I also think that this is an interesting test for Lando. If he can close this gap and win the championship without any issues for Oscar, then this for me shows that he has atoned for his early season issues, showed a strong mentality and that he'll wholly deserve the championship and plaudits.

I don't think Lando will relax, I think he'll go aggressive. I'm not sure if that is better or worse

[BMMR61]

I think it's hard to determine any real indications of a "comeback" by Lando at this stage. Melbourne he was strong, China not so, Japan too close to call. The two Middle East rounds and Miami, Oscar was on top. Those three races looked like Lando was struggling, then Imola and Monaco - Oscar was not right on it. And so on it went. I'd characterise it as a see-saw battle between them, no real trend. Oscar was unlucky to get a pretty rules-undefined, random, (and harsh) Silverstone penalty, and Hungary an unlucky strategy call. But there were elements of excellence in Lando's drives at both these venues also. As many have said, I think the 18 point loss for the DNF feels about right to even up the elements of luck.

If we try to argue a pure speed advantage for either driver I think it's too close to call. I'd characterise the main difference between the two is in Oscar's solidarity - nailing it at crucial moments, and race craft. Assumptions from last year can be trashed - Lando's starts (in terms of reaction time) are good, but he no longer is quicker, Oscar's tyre management is much improved along with his qualifying pace. If we took the unlikely assumption of 1-2s at the next 9 rounds as a base line, Lando needs to win 7 to take the title. Unlikely I would think, as long as Oscar doesn't have an attitude change because his points lead looks good.

[venkyhere]

I am predicting one HAM-ROS-2016-barcelona style coming together in the next 9 races. Ultimately, human instinct takes over and cannot be suppressed by 'logic' .

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Anything that can challenge McLaren at Monza? Obviously a much different circuit to the norm and often we see a Ferrari turned up to the maximum here especially when not in the title fight.


Macca were quickest here last year but lost it by giving track position for the two stop so they had no issue with the track last year.

Perhaps Mercedes, they tend to be better at stop start circuits. Then again their performance has fluctuated so much, who knows.

[mwillems]

It feels fairly clear that in those last races hed got his act together

[geogate]

The Mclaren is the mid-speed corner king. It may have competition at Monza. I think Ferrari may have a car that works there ... maybe.
Max Red Bull should be pretty strong there too

[BMMR61]

The Mclaren is the mid-speed corner king. It may have competition at Monza. I think Ferrari may have a car that works there ... maybe.
Max Red Bull should be pretty strong there too

Yeah Monza is almost an outlier circuit. Long straights, 3 fiddly little chicanes and a couple of medium - high speed corners. I can see the top 4 cars being pretty close, in qualifying particularly. It should be an easy one-stopper so qualifying is important, I doubt McLaren can bank on superior tyre management.

[basti313]

I think it's hard to determine any real indications of a "comeback" by Lando at this stage. Melbourne he was strong, China not so, Japan too close to call. The two Middle East rounds and Miami, Oscar was on top. Those three races looked like Lando was struggling, then Imola and Monaco - Oscar was not right on it. And so on it went. I'd characterise it as a see-saw battle between them, no real trend.

Hmmm...I think Q times are a decisive factor here (as they are not really battling out on track): It is usually super close, all season now within a tenth in Q3 except for a few outliers. Oscar had two with 1.5 tenth, while Lando had bigger ones for example in Spain and Italy...and the very bad one in Canada.
I am not sure where we take the comeback from....Monaco was great, Canada and Spain were rather bad...then two lucky races and the Dutch GP I would not call good either.

Oscar was unlucky to get a pretty rules-undefined, random, (and harsh) Silverstone penalty, and Hungary an unlucky strategy call.

Naaahhh....that were his own faults. Just do not slam the brake like this...and Hungary was lost in the first stint.

But there were elements of excellence in Lando's drives at both these venues also.

Monaco? What else?

Unlikely I would think, as long as Oscar doesn't have an attitude change because his points lead looks good.

Yes. He does not need to change anything. I think Lando needs to change if he wants to stand any chance...DNF or not, and this is the difficulty.