Petition to FIA - 2026 rules canceled, V10s in 2028

[Ferry]

Just bring 2.0 V8 with Turbo without any fuel flow limit until something like 17 000rpm and you're good to go.

Wouldn't that just result in engines running as low RPM as possible? You don' run high RPM unless you are forced to do so, either by law of the regulations or by law of physics.

Give us back F1 noise and give free earplugs to the ones who cannot handle it. This covers everyone because now the pure f1 fans feel wrong.

Who defines who the purest fans are? I'm I not a purist when I put performance above sound?

[bluechris]

Just bring 2.0 V8 with Turbo without any fuel flow limit until something like 17 000rpm and you're good to go.

Wouldn't that just result in engines running as low RPM as possible? You don' run high RPM unless you are forced to do so, either by law of the regulations or by law of physics.

Give us back F1 noise and give free earplugs to the ones who cannot handle it. This covers everyone because now the pure f1 fans feel wrong.

Who defines who the purest fans are? I'm I not a purist when I put performance above sound?

The point is that without sound you are unable to do anything about it. With sound you can have earplugs and be fine so everyone is happy.

[eyelid]

Just bring 2.0 V8 with Turbo without any fuel flow limit until something like 17 000rpm and you're good to go.

Wouldn't that just result in engines running as low RPM as possible? You don' run high RPM unless you are forced to do so, either by law of the regulations or by law of physics.

Give us back F1 noise and give free earplugs to the ones who cannot handle it. This covers everyone because now the pure f1 fans feel wrong.

Who defines who the purest fans are? I'm I not a purist when I put performance above sound?

Yes it would. That's why FIA also has fuel flow limits to lower revs in nowadays regulations because actually everybody would just run the engines with high boost and gigantic turbo between 4000 - 6000rpm somehing without almost any sound. That would the most efficient way also to save fuel.

[Ferry]

The point is that without sound you are unable to do anything about it. With sound you can have earplugs and be fine so everyone is happy.

If you really wanted to, I guess you could amplify the sound of todays hybrids. Put on some amplifier head set. I use it myself when out hunting. Primarily to protect my ears, but they also amplify weak sounds. I can hear the dog further away.
I've experienced the 2013 V8s live, as well as the V6 hybrids. Earplugs is not good enough for the NA high revving engines. Proper ear mufflers should be used if you want real good protection. I use ear plugs when attending races with the hybrids. The sound is still hard on the ears. I know a lot of people drop them, but from a health perspective they should really be used. Same goes for rock concerts. Tinnitus is a bitch..
Btw. How loud do you turn the TV sound up when watching races?

[JordanMugen]

There are also a lot of people who work trackside who appreciate the sound levels not being damaging to our hearing!!

You still need to bring and wear (if desired) ear plugs for F1 support categories Carrera Cup and F3 anyway? They are both much louder than F1 (even with mufflers, Carrera Cup are extremely loud; while obviously F3 cars (and all the three F-series) have no mufflers for whatever historical reason(s)).

So spectators already have the hearing protection on hand.

Obviously small children should be fitted with ear defenders, even for the turbo hybrid F1 cars - they have sensitive hearing.

Btw. How loud do you turn the TV sound up when watching races?

I think I have the sound system (love my Jamo S606s, such a convenient package with the built-in 8" subwoofer and no need for seperate subwoofer!) around 95 dBA.

Unfortunately the commentary is often mixed louder (sometimes much louder) than the trackside microphones.

Obviously how loud racing cars seem trackside is a strong function of WHERE you stand (throttle percentage at that point in the circuit) and how FAR away you stand -- on street circuits the spectating points can be much closer to the track, so the cars seem louder.

On the Adelaide street circuit, there are points where you can be 2-3m away from the cars, while at permanent circuits you might be as far as 100m away in a grandstand beyond a run-off area.

[JordanMugen]

Wow, Mercedes-Benz now looking towards favouring V12s:

Speaking at the Munich Motor Show this week, Mercedes’ Chief Technical Officer Markus Schäfer told the media that the German giant will “continue to offer V12s” despite the incoming new ‘Euro7’ emissions laws.

Mercedes is adamant that there will be other markets, most likely the Middle East, that will still have demand for high-performance V8 and V12 engines well into the next decade.

https://torquecafe.com/big-name-brand-v ... 12-future/

Big news if Schäfer thus pushes for the FIA to adopt V12 technical regulations for F1 to best promote V12 Mercedes and Maybach vehicles!

[ACRO]

Just bring 2.0 V8 with Turbo without any fuel flow limit until something like 17 000rpm and you're good to go. Simple, cost effective and no hybrid s*hit and everybody will love them.

Well , a 2 litre turbo without any fuel flow and boost limit would generate easily +3000hp , up the the point you virtually have a gas turbine with cylindrical combustion chambers and a power take off via crankshaft .

[Ferry]

If gas turbines were allowed, would they be used? Driving a generator, then feeding a battery and the traction motor. Like the Jaguar C-X75 concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

[PlatinumZealot]

Really guys? The discussion is if the cars before 2014 sounded better? Is there objection to that? To feel the noise of the damn car and not only hear it?
You care for the birds so much and other woke agendas that you are annoyed from the power of sound? Sorry but i think you never heard a proper f1 car chilling you out from noise which was the epitomy of f1 and we lost it so many years.
I don't think any real F1 fan likes the current situation.

Yes. Some people, like myself, actually prefer the complex sound of the current cars and don't want to have to wear ear protection just to be able to do their job or where in ear radios to hear Race Control.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you started wstching formula 1 in thd ground effect era, you said?

in other words that's the sound you "grew up on" in F1?

There is an inherent bias there.

[PlatinumZealot]

F1 cars currently are 120dB. That is louder than a rock concert. Show me a road car that is that loud…In the UK the legal limit for an exhaust is 72dB.

At what distance?

In any case, before the WLTP rules in 2019 cracked down on "off-road use modes", there are numerous cars and bikes that are way over 100 dBA on a static noise test (3/4 of the rpm of maximum power at 1 metre from the exhaust)...

Not just the Porsche GT3s and Lamborghinis as you'd expect, but even cars like the Hyundai i30N!

The WLTP rules have cracked down on that in Europe, however cars built to American homologation like the Hyundai Elantra N or American-spec Ford Mustang GT with valved factory exhaust can still be well over 100 dBA on the static noise test.

Basically, the old EU regulations only restricted driveby noise at 55 kph (of which there were lots of techniques manufacturers could use to cheat the test) and then a manufacturer would simply declare the static noise level for Australia which would then go in this spreadsheet:
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites ... e_Data.xls

As you can see in the spreadsheet, there are numerous road cars over 100 dBA on the static noise test!

72 dBA is very low, a diesel Vauxhall Astra is louder than that (84 dBA)!

Indeed, the diesel Astra is louder than a Subaru WRX STi which is 79 dBA. The WRX STi uses a 60mm exhaust with restrictive mufflers to meet stricter Japanese noise regulations, where comparable European vehicles like say a Ford Focus RS use a 65mm exhaust often with straight-through design mufflers (which are then bypassed when the exhaust valve is opened anyway) so tend to be a LOT louder.

The notion this pre-WLTP Porsche 911 GT3 is under 72 dB... Well it's a nonsense, isn't it? When the valves are open, the Porsche Sports Exhaust completely bypasses the rear muffler... Obviously there are catalytic converters which the Cup Cars/GT3 R don't have, but with valves open, it's not all that much quieter than the race cars which (in non-WEC/VLN spec) are much, much louder than modern Grand Prix cars.



You can hear it from 300-400 metres away! Under 72 dBA? Not a chance.

While the road car is not as loud as a Carrera Cup car, so perhaps the road car is at parity with Grand Prix cars rather than louder, it does align with how the Porsche Supercup (Carrera Cup) support category cars (or indeed similarly naturally aspirated FIA Formula 3 cars) are noticeably louder than Grand Prix cars.

When the valves were open, the exhaust gas entered via the lower entry which means it completely bypassed the perforated screen baffles of the rear mufflers:

https://i.imgur.com/LP9KIsV.jpeg

Fun fact: the H-pipe crossover synchronises the sound of the two three-cylinder banks to give the high pitched screaming GT3 sound. Other 911s omit this crossover.

The sound of flat six Porsche is not that sweet at all. Its sounds... okay.

Porsche fan tend to overrate the sound. It's good but not nerve tinglingly good.

[dren]

Couldn't agree more.

[mzso]

If gas turbines were allowed, would they be used? Driving a generator, then feeding a battery and the traction motor. Like the Jaguar C-X75 concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

I brought up something similar a while ago. The opinion on this forum was that such a setup would be very heavy and that small turbines are inefficient.

[mzso]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you started wstching formula 1 in thd ground effect era, you said?

in other words that's the sound you "grew up on" in F1?

There is an inherent bias there.

Accusations of bias is rich coming from you...

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Really guys? The discussion is if the cars before 2014 sounded better? Is there objection to that? To feel the noise of the damn car and not only hear it?
You care for the birds so much and other woke agendas that you are annoyed from the power of sound? Sorry but i think you never heard a proper f1 car chilling you out from noise which was the epitomy of f1 and we lost it so many years.
I don't think any real F1 fan likes the current situation.

Yes. Some people, like myself, actually prefer the complex sound of the current cars and don't want to have to wear ear protection just to be able to do their job or where in ear radios to hear Race Control.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you started wstching formula 1 in thd ground effect era, you said?

in other words that's the sound you "grew up on" in F1?

There is an inherent bias there.

I mean, they did have ground effect in the 80’s I guess….. No, I started watching when Mansell was with Williams, the first time….

I will admit to having a bias towards an engine formula that sound complex, at volumes that are not damaging to the hearing of those working at the circuit even inside a building….

[WardenOfTheNorth]

To be clear, I am not against the suggested hybrid V8 running on eco fuels since. Personally I’d like a twin turbo hybrid setup….