2026 Hybrid Powerunits

[diffuser]

ICE will always remain due to lower infrastructure requirements and the ability to bring fuel with you, which makes them better for off the grid use.

Fuel cell vehicles EVs could do that, with better efficiency.

Why would Honda, Audi, Merc, etc invest in F1 in a world that does not power it's cars with ICEs.

For the same reasons they do now, and did before.

Honda did say they came back because of F1's road relevance. Which means they wouldn't if F1 wouldn't keep being relevant. Honda doesn't need to spend 170 Million of it's 7 or 8 billion of R&D on F1.

[Brahmal]

I think ICE days are numbered. I'm sure the ICE cars already out there will continue to exist for years to come, but ICE sales will keep dropping. The current price of gas—and how it got there—is already accelerating the shift, and it will continue to accelerate as battery technologies improve, allowing for faster charging and higher energy density. Cars with a range of 1,000 km are right around the corner. ICE can't compete with LNG or hydrogen for generating electricity, especially when those can be combined with free electricity from solar, hydro, nuclear, and wind, making overall efficiency approach 80%.

ICE will eventually become nothing more than a niche product of course, but there will still be a place for it for a long time to come. If-and-when sustainable fuels start being produced at scale will release some of the negative pressure on ICE applications as well. Whether that will be enough to hold manufacturer's interest in an ICE-based Formula 1 is certainly debatable, but I bet there are a lot of people in the car industry who agree with some of the folks at Mazda that a true sports-car experience must involve an ICE engine directly powering the wheels through a transmission, hybrid or not. Perhaps that is an anachronistic way of thinking, but I'm definitely not the only person that agrees with it.

"Always" is a strong word. With come concentrated effort it could have already been superseeded in most/all applications.
For long haul trucking and aviation, fuel cells would be more efficient. Propfans would be more efficient for starters and electric motors are well suited for that.
Burning costly hydrogen or biofuel is big waste of precious energy.

"Undeveloped countries" is not really an application, just a lack of ability/opportunity.

"Always" was a poor choice of words, edited. I am not aware of the latest news with fuel-cells, but it appears that development and adoption has stalled after a brief flurry a few years ago. Manufacturers seem to have chosen battery electric over fuel cell in a direct competition for R&D resources. ICE has the advantage of already existing and not requiring new infrastructure, and if (big if) sustainable fuels can eventually be scaled up I'm not sure what the business case for fuel-cells in the automotive industry would be. It depends on what time frame we are considering as well: I'm not sure we can be looking beyond the next 10 or 15 years. It feels that lately we can't look beyond the next 10 or 15 weeks.

[Ferry]

I think ICE days are numbered. I'm sure the ICE cars already out there will continue to exist for years to come, but ICE sales will keep dropping.

We still race horses today. Some ICE-cars will always be there. But sales are dropping yes. Even banning of ICE-vehicles in some regions. Like Ethiopia did in 2024. It makes sense if you have a lot of electricity, and have to import fuel. https://newmobility.news/en/2026/02/23/ ... aying-off/
It's near ICE-ban in the EU from 2035.

[JordanMugen]

Honda did say they came back because of F1's road relevance. Which means they wouldn't if F1 wouldn't keep being relevant. Honda doesn't need to spend 170 Million of it's 7 or 8 billion of R&D on F1.

Conversely, if it was a simple V12, the engine development cost cap wouldn't need to be that high. It could be lowered to the level (say $20m per annum?) that even Cosworth could build a competitive engine, perhaps?

I am not a Mercedes fan, far from it, but the Star Wars analogies do not convince me that they are Darth Vader and the Emperor combined. And we all know how that story ended!

To be honest, I still haven't got around to watching Episode 9, so I still don't know how it ends! [I assume a cliffhanger as Disney fancies Episodes 10-12 at some point...]

[diffuser]

I think ICE days are numbered. I'm sure the ICE cars already out there will continue to exist for years to come, but ICE sales will keep dropping.

We still race horses today. Some ICE-cars will always be there. But sales are dropping yes. Even banning of ICE-vehicles in some regions. Like Ethiopia did in 2024. It makes sense if you have a lot of electricity, and have to import fuel. https://newmobility.news/en/2026/02/23/ ... aying-off/
It's near ICE-ban in the EU from 2035.

Right. This approach becomes even more advantageous under fuel-constrained conditions. Electrical generation can be centralized in high-efficiency systems, such as combined-cycle power plants. In these systems, natural gas is combusted in a gas turbine (essentially a jet engine) to generate electricity. The high-temperature exhaust gases are then captured and used to produce steam, which drives a secondary steam turbine to generate additional electricity. This combined-cycle process can achieve thermal efficiencies in the high 60% range. When integrated with renewable energy sources such as solar and wind, the overall system efficiency and resource utilization can be further improved, potentially approaching 80% under optimal conditions.

So if there is a near ban of ICE in the birth place of F1, how can F1 continue with the ICE?

[Tommy Cookers]

. . exhaust-driven supercharging was adopted only for convenience . .

No efficiency benefit?
At low boost levels there is little efficiency benefit but adding an exhaust turbine recovers lost energy even if recovery is limited to that required to run the supercharger.
Efficiency benefits of turbocharging over supercharging increase with pressure ratio (boost) and AFR (eg diesel and F1) - see below.
Pressure ratio. As PR increases, the contribution of positive pumping work (during the intake stroke) to brake power also increases. The corresponding increase in exhaust back pressure does not create a proportional increase in negative pumping work during the exhaust stroke.
AFR. As AFR increases, the PR must increase to produce the additional airflow required. (see Pressure Ratio above)

well the (geometric) CR must be lowered with supercharging (unless we give it help that we deny to the NA)
hence the traditional view that 'efficiency' will be less
and turbocharged engines always seem to have earlier EVO

regarding F1 the use of Miller cycle reduces the positive pumping work (or worse ?)
maybe why the electric supercharge mode was so attractive ?

[wuzak]

What are the main issues for the ICE with increased fuel flow?

The 2026 rules have more geometric limits on components than the 2025 rules.

For instance, some crankshaft dimensions:
Main Bearing diameter
2025: 43.95mm
2026: 44.95mm

Crank Pin Diameter
2025: 37.95mm
2026: 41.95mm

Which, on the surface, looks like the cranksghaft could work with increased fuel flow.

The 2026 rules also define minimum main bearing and rod bearing widths, and the piston pin minimum diameter.

The rods may be lighter than required for increased fuel flow. What else could be a problem?

[mzso]

"Always" was a poor choice of words, edited. I am not aware of the latest news with fuel-cells, but it appears that development and adoption has stalled after a brief flurry a few years ago. Manufacturers seem to have chosen battery electric over fuel cell in a direct competition for R&D resources. ICE has the advantage of already existing and not requiring new infrastructure, and if (big if) sustainable fuels can eventually be scaled up I'm not sure what the business case for fuel-cells in the automotive industry would be. It depends on what time frame we are considering as well: I'm not sure we can be looking beyond the next 10 or 15 years. It feels that lately we can't look beyond the next 10 or 15 weeks.

The niche for fuel cells is much smaller, so for the time being everyone is focusing on battery electric vehicles on the road.
The airplane industy can't be bothered with development. conceptually they barely moved forward from the airliners 60 years ago. They experimented with propfans when fuel prices were high. Then when it went back down they abandoned it. Why have 30% fuel savings...

[diffuser]

"Always" was a poor choice of words, edited. I am not aware of the latest news with fuel-cells, but it appears that development and adoption has stalled after a brief flurry a few years ago. Manufacturers seem to have chosen battery electric over fuel cell in a direct competition for R&D resources. ICE has the advantage of already existing and not requiring new infrastructure, and if (big if) sustainable fuels can eventually be scaled up I'm not sure what the business case for fuel-cells in the automotive industry would be. It depends on what time frame we are considering as well: I'm not sure we can be looking beyond the next 10 or 15 years. It feels that lately we can't look beyond the next 10 or 15 weeks.

The niche for fuel cells is much smaller, so for the time being everyone is focusing on battery electric vehicles on the road.
The airplane industy can't be bothered with development. conceptually they barely moved forward from the airliners 60 years ago. They experimented with propfans when fuel prices were high. Then when it went back down they abandoned it. Why have 30% fuel savings...

The internal materials of the jet turbine has change alot over the last 60 years. They run so hot now. The technolgy to make the parts is highly complex. The way the air is used has changed..it used to all go through the turbine, now only 10% does. They use the front prop to push 90% of the air around the turbine. They're to 3 tines more efficient. I'm no expert. Just saw a video by veritasium.

[media] [/media]

[Cold Fussion]

ICE can't compete with LNG or hydrogen for generating electricity, especially when those can be combined with free electricity from solar, hydro, nuclear, and wind, making overall efficiency approach 80%.

This is completely off topic but where is the source of hydrogen for electricity? As far as I'm aware, hydrogen on Earth has to be produced. Unless you're talking about using it as a fuel source for electricity generation (IE in a car/ship/etc) rather than grid energy production.

[peewon]

So if there is a near ban of ICE in the birth place of F1, how can F1 continue with the ICE?

Because they dont have the rights to a fully electric formula, there isn't another mainstream alternative and F1 has never been about efficiency in its history apart from when they wanted to justify the move to hybrids. Its always been about top end performance.

[gearboxtrouble]

What are the main issues for the ICE with increased fuel flow?

The 2026 rules have more geometric limits on components than the 2025 rules.

For instance, some crankshaft dimensions:
Main Bearing diameter
2025: 43.95mm
2026: 44.95mm

Crank Pin Diameter
2025: 37.95mm
2026: 41.95mm

Which, on the surface, looks like the cranksghaft could work with increased fuel flow.

The 2026 rules also define minimum main bearing and rod bearing widths, and the piston pin minimum diameter.

The rods may be lighter than required for increased fuel flow. What else could be a problem?

Rods for sure are too lightweight. Teams would want to optimize rod construction to emphasize thermal properties which probably means as little material as possible. Would also say the fuel system itself including the tank would need modifications. They would need more air to handle the greater fuel which would mean either more boost from the turbo or actual intake system changes. Finally they'd need to tune the whole drivetrain to the new ICE output which probably needs a decently lengthy dyno program.

So if there is a near ban of ICE in the birth place of F1, how can F1 continue with the ICE?

There isn't a complete ICE ban anywhere because of sustainable fuels. Sports and supercars are pivoting back to ICE hard. Every manufacturer in F1 with the possible exception on Honda has done a full 180 on phasing out the ICE. Ferrari is committed to the V12 in its flagships. GM and Ford are committed to big displacement V8s for their top models. Audi is testing a V8 hybrid RS6 after seeing how poorly received EV performance cars have been in general. Mercedes are rushing to develop a new V8 for AMG models after the 4cyl hybrid C63 was so poorly received they couldn't give them away at 50% off sticker. EV super and hypercars have been market failures with little to no enthusiast interest. There will always be a requirement for some form of high cylinder count ICE in the enthusiast market and if anything F1 needs to pivot to that to maintain road relevance. EVs are appliances for commutes. Performance cars have an ICE as the centerpiece of the experience because its an experience, not merely going fast.

[wuzak]

Rods for sure are too lightweight. Teams would want to optimize rod construction to emphasize thermal properties which probably means as little material as possible. Would also say the fuel system itself including the tank would need modifications. They would need more air to handle the greater fuel which would mean either more boost from the turbo or actual intake system changes. Finally they'd need to tune the whole drivetrain to the new ICE output which probably needs a decently lengthy dyno program.

I was thinking in terms of the ICE/PU, rather than the whole car.

I would think rods are easily changed.
Injectors and high pressure fuel pumps will probably have to be increased in size.

They have plenty of air. Increased fuel flow would mean a less lean mixture.

I suggest that these changes would be made for 2027 or 2028, which would give them time to upgrade their systems.

On the chassis side, the fuel tank would need to be large, as would the fuel system. Though they had larger tanks and fuel systems just last year, so it shouldn't be a massive problem to implement for the next season.

[eyelid]

I think ICE days are numbered. I'm sure the ICE cars already out there will continue to exist for years to come, but ICE sales will keep dropping.

We still race horses today. Some ICE-cars will always be there. But sales are dropping yes. Even banning of ICE-vehicles in some regions. Like Ethiopia did in 2024. It makes sense if you have a lot of electricity, and have to import fuel. https://newmobility.news/en/2026/02/23/ ... aying-off/
It's near ICE-ban in the EU from 2035.

EV's are the horses here, they were abandoned 100 years ago anyway.

[Ferry]

EV's are the horses here, they were abandoned 100 years ago anyway.

And now they are coming back. BEV sales in EU are at 20%, up from 15% a year earlier. Tesla Model Y was the worlds most sold car in 2023. EVs are not going away anytime soon. Anyone believing that should invest money in ICE-tech.