2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[avada]

When outside the top 2 in WDC, Max can activate an exit clause as late as October.

But what is this about it being untenable? If it's that way in the contract then that's how it is.

I'm hopeful the Aston Martin - Honda upgrade will indeed achieve the upper end 4s/lap (!!!!!) estimate and that Verstappen will again be united with Honda and Newey however.

I don't see it happening in this PU cycle.

[Brahmal]

Good video as always from Kyle, but he doesn't really talk about why the wing wouldn't be fully closing in the first place, only the consequences of it not doing so. In the first part of his video he has a really nice split screen showing the SLM timing with Max's steering inputs, and Max seems to start his turn slightly before his wing is fully closed.

Both of these failures have been on very high-speed corners with close to maximum aero loading, and this loading can shift quite dramatically under yaw conditions. When you look at the actual structure of RBR's SLM mechanism, with the central actuator arms and the swing-arm pivots at either end, there is no diagonal bracing to speak of. My theory is that when faced with sideways loads due to yaw conditions the entire flap assembly is "racking" diagonally, in a very similar way to a sticky doorway in an old house that has settled and shifted over the years. This racking is what prevents the rear wing from closing fully, which causes the air-separation that stalls the rear-wing and spins the car.

TLDR I think if RBR starts closing SLM early on certain dangerous corners, like the Ferrari boys have been doing, that will solve this problem. Very strong crosswinds could still be an issue though. Alternatively, they could add diagonal braces alongside the swing-arm pivots, but this seems suboptimal from an aero perspective.

[AR3-GP]

Good video as always from Kyle, but he doesn't really talk about why the wing wouldn't be fully closing in the first place, only the consequences of it not doing so. In the first part of his video he has a really nice split screen showing the SLM timing with Max's steering inputs, and Max seems to start his turn slightly before his wing is fully closed.

Both of these failures have been on very high-speed corners with close to maximum aero loading, and this loading can shift quite dramatically under yaw conditions. When you look at the actual structure of RBR's SLM mechanism, with the central actuator arms and the swing-arm pivots at either end, there is no diagonal bracing to speak of. My theory is that when faced with sideways loads due to yaw conditions the entire flap assembly is "racking" diagonally, in a very similar way to a sticky doorway in an old house that has settled and shifted over the years. This racking is what prevents the rear wing from closing fully, which causes the air-separation that stalls the rear-wing and spins the car.

TLDR I think if RBR starts closing SLM early on certain dangerous corners, like the Ferrari boys have been doing, that will solve this problem. Very strong crosswinds could still be an issue though. Alternatively, they could add diagonal braces alongside the swing-arm pivots, but this seems suboptimal from an aero perspective.

I think you posted this after my post in the other thread, but just to be clear on the issue in this thread:

Verstappen told Sky Sports F1 that the cause of his Silverstone spin was identical to the issue that put him in the barriers in qualifying for the Austrian Grand Prix a week earlier.

“The same as Austria, the rear wing just doesn’t fully close,” he said. “I saw the analysis. It looks like it closes, but it doesn’t. It closes but it’s just a little bit open and you lose a lot of rear downforce. And that’s why the car just spins off the track.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/verst ... 40457.html

It's not about timing of closing. It's that the wing cannot close itself all the way due to issues in the mechanical design.

All of twitter, Youtube content creators, and elsewhere are saying "it looks closed", must be aerodynamic or driver issue, but the team clarified that it actually isn't closed fully in Austria or Silverstone. The issue is simply mechanical.

There's so many "creators" putting wrong information out on the internet to large audiences.

[Brahmal]

It's not about timing of closing. It's that the wing cannot close itself all the way due to issues in the mechanical design.

Yes, I am speculating that it can't close fully because it is racking diagonally under certain extreme conditions due to lack of any diagonal bracing. I believe those extreme conditions are based on the timing of turn-in and SLM deactivation into very high-speed corners. It's possible to simulate yaw conditions in the wind-tunnel though, and RBR hopefully would have tested that, so maybe not.

[AR3-GP]

Yes, I am speculating that it can't close fully because it is racking diagonally under certain extreme conditions due to lack of any diagonal bracing. I believe those extreme conditions are based on the timing of turn-in and SLM deactivation into very high-speed corners.

Yes the flexing will definitely ruin the precise kinematics that were developed on the computer so could lead to this oversight.

It's possible to simulate yaw conditions in the wind-tunnel though, and RBR hopefully would have tested that, so maybe not.

You can simulate yaw in the windtunnel, but it's a 60% scale model. The windtunnel model has different materials and construction (they aren't designing for weight, lots of 3d printed ceramics, active aero likely has different mechanism as well). So this specific issue would be difficult to study in a windtunnel unless it's the real car in a full size tunnel which is not allowed.

[AR3-GP]

New wind tunnel under construction. The black wall is the farthest one.

The project is three months ahead of schedule and will start to be used and impact the car next year.

The first upgrades for the RB23 will be from the new windtunnel. Personally I think Max should give it a chance until the end of next year.

[ME4ME]

The first upgrades for the RB23 will be from the new windtunnel. Personally I think Max should give it a chance until the end of next year.

I tend to agree. The rear wing issues can be fixed relativly short term. The PU issues can be turned around either via software or replacing the unit at the next race.

Also the only other options seem to be to either retire or go to Mclaren if that's actualy possible. But like i've written earlier I see lots of problem in that.

The new windtunnel I fair might be "the next new thing" at the horizon. There is always something, always something to pin ones hopes on. But what advantage will it truly bring, and how long does it take to be properly understood..

The most worrying thing for Verstappen and Red Bull is ADUO. I think it makes total sense for Verstappen to wait and see how the FIA review turns out. Both to see what handicap Red Bull continue to have technically, but also what Mekies can do. It's his first proper challenge since taking over from Horner I'd argue. It's all well and nice that he's a technical guy and gels with the engineers like Marko said, but his job is also very much to play and win the political game.

[AR3-GP]

The new windtunnel I fair might be "the next new thing" at the horizon. There is always something, always something to pin ones hopes on. But what advantage will it truly bring, and how long does it take to be properly understood..

No idea, but it's the same windtunnel that Mclaren has. Red Bull will have more windtunnel resources than the others.

[avada]

It's not about timing of closing. It's that the wing cannot close itself all the way due to issues in the mechanical design.

Yes, I am speculating that it can't close fully because it is racking diagonally under certain extreme conditions due to lack of any diagonal bracing. I believe those extreme conditions are based on the timing of turn-in and SLM deactivation into very high-speed corners. It's possible to simulate yaw conditions in the wind-tunnel though, and RBR hopefully would have tested that, so maybe not.

I don't think Verstappen would have made it to the final laps if this was the case.

[AR3-GP]

It's not about timing of closing. It's that the wing cannot close itself all the way due to issues in the mechanical design.

Yes, I am speculating that it can't close fully because it is racking diagonally under certain extreme conditions due to lack of any diagonal bracing. I believe those extreme conditions are based on the timing of turn-in and SLM deactivation into very high-speed corners. It's possible to simulate yaw conditions in the wind-tunnel though, and RBR hopefully would have tested that, so maybe not.

I don't think Verstappen would have made it to the final laps if this was the case.

It's not impossible. The wing opens and closes several times a lap. The bearings wear. The wing flexes more and more, some of it permanent (in micron scale). It's windy in silverstone. The right amount of headwind or cross winds at the right moment could set off a chain reaction of loadings that caused the wing to bind instead of closing fully. If this is the reason that is fails, then it is only luck that it doesn't happen earlier. It did happen much earlier in Austria.

[Brahmal]

I don't think Verstappen would have made it to the final laps if this was the case.

Metal fatigue in the swing-arm pivots would build up over the race distance and make it more likely to happen later in the race. That assembly is having to withstand a great deal of force a great number of times. Also, it may be that Max turned in a little earlier than normal in that particular corner, overlapping the SLM closure timing. Again, KYLE.ENGINEERS does a good job in his video of breaking down the exact timing of when SLM closes to Max's turn-in, providing some pretty strong evidence of that overlap IMO.

[avada]

I didn't think about fatigue.

Also, it may be that Max turned in a little earlier than normal in that particular corner, overlapping the SLM closure timing. Again, KYLE.ENGINEERS does a good job in his video of breaking down the exact timing of when SLM closes to Max's turn-in, providing some pretty strong evidence of that overlap IMO.

He says the exact opposite about this: "And you'll see that his actual turnin point where he really starts to turn in properly and not just following the the kink of the road as you enter this corner. You'll see his turn in is later, much later than when it closes."

[clownfish]

All of twitter, Youtube content creators, and elsewhere are saying "it looks closed", must be aerodynamic or driver issue, but the team clarified that it actually isn't closed fully in Austria or Silverstone. The issue is simply mechanical.

There's so many "creators" putting wrong information out on the internet to large audiences.

Fair point, but teams don't always tell the whole truth.

If their design is non-conventional and is quicker than a traditional wing, they aren't going to say "yeah actually there's a problem with it that makes it dangerous compared to the traditional type of wing" and get it banned.

[avada]

All of twitter, Youtube content creators, and elsewhere are saying "it looks closed", must be aerodynamic or driver issue, but the team clarified that it actually isn't closed fully in Austria or Silverstone. The issue is simply mechanical.

There's so many "creators" putting wrong information out on the internet to large audiences.

Fair point, but teams don't always tell the whole truth.

If their design is non-conventional and is quicker than a traditional wing, they aren't going to say "yeah actually there's a problem with it that makes it dangerous compared to the traditional type of wing" and get it banned.

There is a problem with it. Two pages back in this topic images were shared that show that it didn't close fully.

[clownfish]

All of twitter, Youtube content creators, and elsewhere are saying "it looks closed", must be aerodynamic or driver issue, but the team clarified that it actually isn't closed fully in Austria or Silverstone. The issue is simply mechanical.

There's so many "creators" putting wrong information out on the internet to large audiences.

Fair point, but teams don't always tell the whole truth.

If their design is non-conventional and is quicker than a traditional wing, they aren't going to say "yeah actually there's a problem with it that makes it dangerous compared to the traditional type of wing" and get it banned.

There is a problem with it. Two pages back in this topic images were shared that show that it didn't close fully.

You're missing the point of my post, which was simply that teams are not obligated to, and indeed don't, tell the truth around such matters to the public.