USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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WhiteBlue
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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I followed that link for their CFD consultant and it says about computers:
Our primary computational resource is an indigenous 1250-processor x86 32 and 64 bit multi-core Linux cluster. The system provides 40 Terabytes of data storage, 1250 Gigabytes of RAM, an Infiniband high-speed interconnect, and over 10-million cpu-hours annually. Current capability permits routine in-house calculations on problems with 80 million or more elements. Continued expansion of the facility is ongoing and is expected to reach 3000 processors within the next few years.
In addition to the supercomputer, various 64-bit workstations for large-scale grid generation and scientific visualization are maintained in-house.

Computational Resource
Our customers have come to expect accurate high fidelity computational solutions conducted in a timely manner. At Corvid we understand that our primary tool is our in-house supercomputing assets. We have developed a strategy and per-CPU pricing system that makes us one of the best return on investment super-computing facilities available. Currently, our analysts have 1250 processors available in massively parallel high-performance computing systems. Investment strategies are expected to take this to over 3000 processors within a few years. Our current system affords us the ability to run full three-dimensional CFD and shock physics simulations with 10 to 100 million elements while still providing quick-turnaround time-accurate solutions.
I guess that answers the question where USF1 does their main CFD work.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Professor
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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segedunum wrote:That sounds promising Professor, but we've seen nothing else other than press releases and forum posts and nothing like what Lotus, Manor and even Campos have thus far. I mean, we've seen a picture of Lotus's chassis and Campos have theirs homologated. Manor are maybe a bit further behind, but they have official Virgin backing and Manor are a credible racing team with a track record. We've seen nothing of that with USF1, no matter who they've employed.

It just smells far too much like the sort of thing that Qadback were angling for - using the 2010 grid slots as a means to make some money and selling them on when they couldn't deliver. At the moment, that looks like the most valuable thing they have. Does anyone need 10,000 toasters?
I agree with you regarding the information that has been available. It leaves me with an uneasy feeling whenever I see info coming forth from the other new teams and see nothing coming from Charlotte. I want the team to succeed and I hope they will. But, there is little evidence of progress. Time is running out and I also have my doubts, but I will wait and see before I pass judgement.

I have been involved in some tough projects that I thought were impossibe, but as project manager I could not openly express my doubt. One in particular springs to mind because the project logo was a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, LoL!

USF1 has been in the news mostly because no news has come out of Charlotte. Bernie famously said that he didn't think USF1 would be ready for the first race at Bahrain. "I think one or two might not turn up," he told the BBC in Singapore. "That's what I'm being told; possibly USF1 are a doubt."

Following that, the new FIA Senate President Nick Craw said that he had a different view. He said that the team had paid their entry fee, that he had inspected their facility twice, and that "I am impressed with the progress made by the organisation since the Concorde Agreement was signed in late July."

The next news about USF1 did not come from Charlotte, but came from far away, and originated with Ross Brawn. He said, "We have been crash testing for the new car for the past two months, to be ready for the official tests. A new team should be doing the same if it wants to be ready for the beginning of the season." Brawn somehow knew what was going on in Charlotte and his comments fueled further rumours that USF1 was in serious trouble. Perhaps Steve Brown told him.

madtown77
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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As I said earlier, that video from the office and workshop was pure comedy with the cheap Jim Clark poster on the wall, shelves sitting on the floor, FIA software on screen and a CNC doing nothing but moving around a piece of Aluminium, which quite clearly did not have a place on an F1 car.
Hey xpensive, that CNC was performing surface finishing, typically around 0.001"-0.002" per pass, so yeah, its pretty slow. That and they turned the coolant flow off for the cameras so they have to slow it down so they don't burn up the tooling and the part.

As for not having a place on a race car, looks an awful lot like a suspension upright without all the little carbon pieces around it for controlling brake cooling airflow.
USF1 have published a lot of promises they have failed to keep, and some photos of some rented machines in an industrial unit.
Most importantly to me, they always seem to be hiding something. The Speed TV visit to their "state of the art facility" was shot so tightly that we never even got to see the facility. All we saw was Jim Clarke in a '49 and an anonymous piece of ally being cut on an anonymous machine.
Or the picture of their Autoclave shot from 1/2inch off the deck to make it look big enough to make part of a car in.
As for cooper-climax, the building they own, the machines come from HAAS (who sponsors other racing efforts) and an autoclave does not need to be very large. The only part of the car that defines the final size of the autoclave needed is the driver cockpit, which isn't very large when you look at it by itself. Did you think the entire car goes in at once?

Maybe you two should learn a little more about race cars before criticizing those who actually build them.

With that said, the reports of running an Argentine driver with no F1 racing experience are worrying, especially if he is only on the team because he is bringing $8 million to the table. That could be a sign of problems, or that the team simply failed to impress any quality divers (Ken doesn't seem very comfortable on camera...ever) and decided if they need to run a no-name to fill the other seat, why not get paid for it. If they were gonna run a foreign driver, Wurz was probably the best choice. That being said, Lopez has driven an F1 car before. They still are looking for a second driver, and I would bet (and hope) its someone with significant experience (Villeneuve would be my first choice)

However, the number of American drivers who have Superlicences is very short (Scott Speed...and...?) and the qualifications are pretty stringent (Sebastian Loeb was even denied). Names like Summerton are great, but they need at least a year in a European feeder series to even qualify.

It seems that everyone expects a new team to turn up with 300+ employees at some gaudy facility to build the car in with money being no object. Understandable since that always leads to a winning team. I mean, just ask Honda, Toyota, BMW, Renault....
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Conceptual
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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I live about 30 minutes from the ORNL (Oak Ridge National Labratory), and there was just an atricle in our local newspaper that states that ORNL houses the #1 and #3 supercomputers on the planet, and they are able to be linked in minutes to create a crazy system. Also, they are currently running the COMSOL multi-physics program suite (for nuclear stuff). Maybe they should be crunching in the off-hours for USF1? THAT sould be great!

PS: I attended a COMSOL training on the 2nd of this month, and when I asked about GPU integration, as well as fractal turbulence models, the instructor asked me to stay after the class to give a writeup on my ideas...

I hope that I at least get a free copy of the software if they actually do what I said that they should!

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cooper-climax
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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Mclaren's Autoclave (they have several, but then they are Mclaren.)

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Toyota.

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BAR

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And USF1, About 4 1/2' -5' Dia, look at the hight of the control box.

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What I meant by anonymous, was that the building didn't look lived in. (they don't own it by the way they have a lease, the free-hold is for sale.) the same way that the machine looks very clean if they have just turned the coolant off. A machine in use looks more like this one..

Image


I have no objection to staged publicity photos. But to show no work as evidance of a lot of work is pushing it.

Yes, it's possible that one doesn't need a huge facility to build a formula one car, but with a large budget or small, you will need good project management. Just going by their own press releases they are missing more targets than they hit. Personally, I don't subscribe to the "Sell a team" theory. I just see a team that is struggling to make progress and is having to constantly back peddle on its plans and put out misleading press releases.

This is the big difference between USF1 and Manor. Almost everything USF1 have said has had to be modified, showing a lack of understanding of the task in hand.
Manor on the other hand haven't even announced the Virgin sponsorship officially. We don't know how things are going for Manor, but we know that USF1 are in trouble.
Murray: "And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool."
James: "Well, that should put them out then."

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WhiteBlue
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madtown77 wrote:Hey xpensive, that CNC was performing surface finishing, typically around 0.001"-0.002" per pass, so yeah, its pretty slow. That and they turned the coolant flow off for the cameras so they have to slow it down so they don't burn up the tooling and the part.

As for not having a place on a race car, looks an awful lot like a suspension upright without all the little carbon pieces around it for controlling brake cooling airflow.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

madtown77
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cooper-climax:

You know, cause no one ever cleans up their shop before a PR visit right?

And coolant is pooling all over the part, so all they did was open the doors and blow the chips off the table. Pretty sure I know what a machine in use looks like since I have operated these same HAAS machines for years.

As for the size of the autoclave. Looks to be in the middle of the 2 that BAR use, so it may be JUST large enough to fit the driver cockpit in (5' would likely be sufficient actually). Otherwise, the cockpit itself could be being manufactured off-site. Boeing has a large facility for the 787 in that area going up as there are several carbon fiber suppliers.

Sorry to chastise people but think before you condemn them. Have they apparently missed deadlines (even though there was never an 'official' timetable), possibly. But everyone who has visited these facilities (although they do have a certain vested interest. Well, the FIA anyway, not so much Cosworth) has said they are coming along fine. They only have 50-60 employees, and if that counts machinists, CAD/CAM personnel, and carbon fiber specialists that leaves probably no better then 40 people in the front office (maybe less).

Sure I would like to hear more news, but they are busy. I would rather not hear anything and see the car in January for testing than to see a press release every day and never get it done.

Aside from all this, not seeing pictures of parts from the car isn't unusual. I mean, when was the last time you saw McLaren's chassis before they went testing?
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mx_tifoso
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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madtown77 wrote:I mean, when was the last time you saw McLaren's chassis before they went testing?
Didn't someone post a picture of an MP4-25 monocoque on here just a few weeks ago?
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madtown77
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Maybe my mistake, so far all I have seen is 1 really blurry picture from about 40 feet away through a window. My point is, do teams regularly release these pictures during development, not really.
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cooper-climax
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Campos. (posted here because they are a pain to find on the site.)

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The Lotus site is easier.

http://www.lotusf1racing.my/gallery-dev ... tml?page=1

My point is that they do when they have promised "Unprecedented access to a Formula 1 team." and the main talking point about your team is that they are not going to make it.
Murray: "And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool."
James: "Well, that should put them out then."

madtown77
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As I said, I would rather they offer that access starting with the season than now. I don't really need to see a twitter post for every single operation that is performed. I want to see that car when it is done, in January. Just because they aren't making a point of publishing every fact about their car at every stage of development means nothing.

The bigger problem here is that the American media cares almost nothing about open-wheeled racing in general (in fact, anything that isn't NASCAR) so since they haven't taken the time to put up their website yet, they really don't have a whole lot of exposure.
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2007 Formula SAE World Champions
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cooper-climax
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Relative to the other new teams they've had a huge amount of coverage- Speed TV hasn't visited the other factories.- there just hasn't been many facts in there.

Because this is getting a little heavy, I'd also like to point out that I really like that second photo. I know Bruno's checking the cockpit for size and fit, and it's all a serious business. But I also know he's making car noises. (because that's what I'd be doing too.)
Last edited by cooper-climax on 07 Dec 2009, 05:09, edited 1 time in total.
Murray: "And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool."
James: "Well, that should put them out then."

mx_tifoso
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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It would be great if the Sunday night local news included the race results for F1 just like they do for NASCAR. Those precious few seconds would do wonders for exposure.
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madtown77
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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Too true to both above.

Well, it's SpeedTV, not exactly THE source for F1 information. Love how they tried to make it look like an off-the-cuff visit.

If Cosworth doesn't prove to be a good engine, having the driver make engine sounds might actually make the car go faster.

Hell, I'd be happy for a few more parodies of racing referencing "Formula UHHHH"
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xpensive
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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madtown77 wrote:
As I said earlier, that video from the office and workshop was pure comedy with the cheap Jim Clark poster on the wall, shelves sitting on the floor, FIA software on screen and a CNC doing nothing but moving around a piece of Aluminium, which quite clearly did not have a place on an F1 car.
Hey xpensive, that CNC was performing surface finishing, typically around 0.001"-0.002" per pass, so yeah, its pretty slow. That and they turned the coolant flow off for the cameras so they have to slow it down so they don't burn up the tooling and the part.

As for not having a place on a race car, looks an awful lot like a suspension upright without all the little carbon pieces around it for controlling brake cooling airflow.
Surface finishing, eh? On an aluminium upright? Yeah right, for a Nascar vehicle perhaps.

I have actually tried to be corteous about this sad xcuse for an F1 team, but their effort has been pathetic from day one and there's not a chance in hell they ever gonna make the grid. Or I'll eat a Nomex suit.

When you listen to Windsor's ramblings, it's pretty obvious he simply has no clue as to what he's talking about.
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