Mclaren to be Merc 'B' team?

[djones]

Sorry if this is in another topic somewhere but...

Do you think McLaren will now be the the Mercedes B team?

I was just having a think about how the new Merc team will do next season.

The car itself was probably the best on the grid already and Mercedes own the majority share in Mclaren so its looking quite good for them.

Their interests will be in the Mercedes team doing well as thats what will sell them more road cars and make them more money.

Presumably they are going to take any better technology from McLaren and put it on the Mercedes car.

Basically Mercedes effectively own both teams (for the sake of this argument) and it makes sense for one of them teams to do better than the other - the one with their name on!

Or do you think its not going to work that way?

[axle]

McLaren are now effectively a customer of Mercedes' HPE division.
As McLaren buys back it's 40% shareholding from Merc this will clarify things further, but Mercedes are now only interested in what was Brawn. McLaren are just a customers like FI.

[Confused_Andy]

Mclaren will never be a B team to anyone, thats like saying if Fiat setup its own F1 team Ferrari would be a B team... Ummmm, nah.

[ESPImperium]

McLaren have bought, or are to buy back all the 40% Mercedes put into them. The sweatener for them to do so was for them to get free Mercedes power till 2015. And so are now considered customers like Force India.

Mercedes Benz are just intrested in Mercedes GP now. A self sufficent team with their own sponsorship and supply chain effectivly. This will be seen whan Haug switches from the McLaren pit wall to what was the Brawn pit wall in 2010.

McLaren arnt a B-Team, never will. They have their own structure and will be run completly diffrently to what Ron Dennis has at McLaren.

Force India complecates things, they are effectivy customers to mercedes benz for the engine and Mclaren for the gearbox and some suspension components, the rest that is needed for Force India is issued "under licence" from McLaren Applied Technologys.

But McLaren will not be a B-team to Mercedes. But by 2012, McLaren have to ditch the silver arrows livery for something other than that. They will not go to to the Orange livery as Vodaphone wouldnt want that, but i personally think that they will do something like the old 80s & 90s livery with red and white, but in a Vodaphone style as that sponsorship is till 2019.

However, for 2010, Mclaren will be Silver/Black/Red and Mercedes will be Silver/White/Yellow at current, but with the Petronas Deal today, id say that its more likely to be Silver/White/Aqua.

[djones]

Mclaren will never be a B team to anyone, thats like saying if Fiat setup its own F1 team Ferrari would be a B team... Ummmm, nah.

Although it would never be official, surely this will however be the case?

I mean mercedes can presumably choose what parts/information is passed between the two.

If I were Mercedes a lot more of the information would be going to the mercedes team as thats the one that will ultimately make the company more money.

Its financially not in their interests for McLaren to beat them.

[mx_tifoso]

As ISP has said on here, Mercedes have sold back their shares in the McLaren team. With that done they are effectively two totally separate entities now, with no relationship between the two except for the engine supply deal.

Therefore there can't be an A or B team.

[djones]

Ah, fair enough.

I guess one control they would have though is on the engines. The spec cant be changed but you can bet the mercedes team will have all the parts with the best tollerances.

[WhiteBlue]

McLaren have bought, or are to buy back all the 40% Mercedes put into them. The sweatener for them to do so was for them to get free Mercedes power till 2015. And so are now considered customers like Force India.

McLaren are by no means getting free engines till 2015. If at all they get customer engines guaranteed until 2012. After 2012 there are options which are described differently by both sides but obviously there will be an element of choice for both sides. If the deal doesn't look like it makes sense it will not happen. The likelihood of that to happen will increase with McLaren entering the road car market with the MP4-12C in 2011.

[mx_tifoso]

Who knows why I barely thought of this, but there are going to be four silver cars next year!?

Fugly x 2.

Ah, fair enough.

I guess one control they would have though is on the engines. The spec cant be changed but you can bet the mercedes team will have all the parts with the best tollerances.

Thanks for being a good sport.

And yes they do have control over which engines go to McLaren. They could do what Ferrari are supposedly doing with STR; providing "high" mileage engines which have deteriorated in output levels.

Although they could have done the same to BGP or FI when they were doing better than McLaren-Mercedes.

[Giblet]

F1 is a competition of constructors, that either build or buy engines to put in the cars, and this is how it always have been. The recent flood of manufacturers into the sport who are now all leaving makes it look like 'their' sport, but there is a reason there is not WEC (World Engine Championship).

The only true teams that were B teams were STR and Super Aguri, and neither were B teams because of a secondary engine supply.

[ESPImperium]

McLaren have bought, or are to buy back all the 40% Mercedes put into them. The sweatener for them to do so was for them to get free Mercedes power till 2015. And so are now considered customers like Force India.

McLaren are by no means getting free engines till 2015. If at all they get customer engines guaranteed until 2012. After 2012 there are options which are described differently by both sides but obviously there will be an element of choice for both sides. If the deal doesn't look like it makes sense it will not happen. The likelihood of that to happen will increase with McLaren entering the road car market with the MP4-12C in 2011.

I was under the impression that they have been given free engines till 2015. But what you have said makes sence now. They will probably kappe Mercedes in their cars till the end of 2011 then in 2012 announce they have severed links with MB and go their own way with their own engines.

But for now, and this thread, Mercedes and McLaren are totally seprate teams getting the same spec of engines as per regulation.

[Pup]

Certainly Merc can give them inferior engines if they choose. Especially, if there is a close race between the two, I can't see why they wouldn't give McLaren the engines with parts that are closer to being out-of-spec than the ones they keep for themselves. But if they aren't in a title battle, then there's no reason whatsoever for Merc to cheat them. The last thing Merc wants to be seen as is the weak link in any of their teams.

But, McLaren a "B" team? That's hilarious my friend.

[marcush.]

there is no b-supplies really .
and look Brawn did win the crown with a B-spec engine installation...So i can´t see
the point really ,apart from Macs being customer team .
But this happened before and did not stop them from winning a lot of races that season:
1993 they played second fiddle to Benetton who were ford works team then.

[Pup]

I suppose that the Merc/Petronas tie-up (which I have to say is a bizarre surprise to me) could mean we'll see McLaren and Force India with engines that perform a bit differently - perhaps worse, perhaps better - than Merc's own. Depending, of course, on how different the Petronas lubricants/fuels are to Mobil's offerings. I confess that I don't know how interrelated the development of engines, fuels, and lubricants are at this level. I assume it's a great deal, particularly with lubricants. And I also have no idea if there is much difference between what Petronas, Shell and Mobil offer.

[Giblet]

It was obvious by the performance of the Brawns and the Force Indias that the engines they were receiving were relatively on par with the lumps being supplied to Mclaren.

Ferrari sells high mileage engines to STR, but STR would have known this going into the agreement, and been fine with it, otherwise they would have cried foul when it was reported.

Mercedes has conducted themselves quite well, supplying strong engines to everyone on short notice, and standing behind Mclaren to a point during tough times. Mclaren did the same when Merc engines were detonating regularly.

Mercedes have wished to grow outside of mere engine supply/technical partnetship and this has come around finally. I think they wanted to eventually own Mclaren, but Ron and Mclaren have proved more than once that they are there on their own merit and don't need help to succeed.