2010 Gearboxes for New Teams

[FW17]

The Cosworth contract is for 2010 to 2012. The plan is that beginning 2010, if a team does not want to use this engine it will have to build an identical engine themselves or use their existing 2.4 liter V8 engines detuned to match the Cosworth engine. But the only choice will be in the engine department, all transmissions will have to be the standard Xtrac/Ricardo transmission.

This is the old news and the gearbox part was scraped.

When was the last time Ricardo gearboxes used in F1 last? Will they be offering a seamless-shift gearbox that all F1 teams have developed and running?

Williams team used Xtrac gear box in 2006 as a package with cosworth, Will anyone be using them next year or source them from existing teams?

USF1 has confirmed that they will be using a US bases gearbox (the general chat thread still has 2 manufacturers for it)

Campos?

Lotus?

Virgin?

Sauber?

[scarbs]

I know Lotus have adopted the complete gearbox, that is the casing and gear cluster, while Campos Meta I hear have their own casing for the std gear cluster. USF1 were falsely rumoured (not helped by me!) to be using a Weismann gearbox, but Emco are listed as an official partner. But, I would have to guess they are using the standard transmission and casing bearing in mind the rush to get the car ready. We have no news from Virgin, its hard to predict what Nick Wirth’s attitude will be towards the standard set up. While Sauber will no doubt produce their own gearbox or although may be they could adopt Ferraris. For the previous few years BMW motorsport designed the entire gearbox and also made both the gears and casing. Historically Sauber designed their own gearboxes and subbed out the manufacture of the specialist parts.

I don’t believe Ricardo has ever produced a complete F1 gearbox branded as their own. However I’m sure they’ve had input into many teams gearboxes over the years. Williams did not use an Xtrac branded gearbox in 2006, as they design and produce their own gearboxes (IIRC 2006 was the double clutch set up). Although as gears are a specialist manufactured item, it probably had Xtrac made internals.

The standard transmission is a seamless set up, probably adopting two selector mechanisms which is the preferred set up in F1. As mentioned it comes either as a gear cluster or with complete with an aluminium casing. Mike Gascoyne told me the casing is good enough and won’t be an issue regards weight, aerodynamics or rear suspension geometry.

[ESPImperium]

From what im led to belive:

Lotus Cosworth = Spec, with a few small changes to Lotus spec.
Campos Dallara = Totally spec, probably to save on cash that Campos are short on.
USF1 Cosworth = Own spec designed and built by Weismann with Emco support. But they could just use the Spec transmission for quickness.
Virgin Cosworth = TBC, most probably spec, but with a few changes simmilar to Lotus.
BMW Sauber (Team Sauber F1) = This one is difficut to judge, BMW Sauber last year at Valencia introduced a new gearbox then, so could that be them using the same one that they designed and "tested" since then for the Ferarri 056 power plant. Another way they could go is buy in the Ferarri transmission for an additional $5million a season, but i think id prefer giving the BMW Sauber one a try with the 056 first.

One other "new" team that should also be discussed id Mercedes GP, they have to design and manufacture a new gearbox for the new season as last year they were using the Honda RA808E desidned box' for the Mercedes F0108W, and this will be the big area of mechanical expenditure here.

But more or less every team will have to design and build a new gearbox for 2010 as all gearboxes this year will be Holmogonised this year the same way in 2007 the engines got simmilar treatment, this is for cost saving purposes, and for the alleged 2011 rule for gearboxes where they follow a simmilar rule to engines, between 4 and 6 per season per driver, whitch means teams will not have to carry up to 6 to 8 gearboxes to each GP.

[Fil]

One other "new" team that should also be discussed id Mercedes GP, they have to design and manufacture a new gearbox for the new season as last year they were using the Honda RA808E desidned box...

Interesting point here.

In 2009 was McLaren using a Mercedes-derived gearbox, or was it McLaren-owned?
How about Force India?

The answers to these two teams will answer the question of what MercGP will be doing.. anybody know?

[ESPImperium]

One other "new" team that should also be discussed id Mercedes GP, they have to design and manufacture a new gearbox for the new season as last year they were using the Honda RA808E desidned box...

Interesting point here.

In 2009 was McLaren using a Mercedes-derived gearbox, or was it McLaren-owned?
How about Force India?

The answers to these two teams will answer the question of what MercGP will be doing.. anybody know?

From what i can see, the gearbox was wholy designed and built by McLaren Applied Technology, meaning that Merceds wont have the design for that one. The Force India design uses the Mercedes engine and the McLaren gearbox and common suspension components as well. However Force India design and build their own suspension parts that need to be aerodynamically shaped for their design solution and philosiphy.

Force Indias deal will not be affected by the Mercedes and McLaren seperation at the current moment.

All i know is that if a gearbox is designed for a push or pullrod pickup point they teams need to keep it like that till the end of 2012 accordingly Adrian Newey. Unless there is a specific saftey or relyability need that the teams can suitably satisfy the FIA there is a specific need to do so, whitch is 99% certain they the FIA will reject after what they teams have done since 2007 and 2008 with the engines and supposed "equalisation" of all engines.

[FW17]

From what im led to belive:

Lotus Cosworth = Spec, with a few small changes to Lotus spec.
Campos Dallara = Totally spec, probably to save on cash that Campos are short on.
USF1 Cosworth = Own spec designed and built by Weismann with Emco support. But they could just use the Spec transmission for quickness.
Virgin Cosworth = TBC, most probably spec, but with a few changes simmilar to Lotus.
BMW Sauber (Team Sauber F1) = This one is difficut to judge, BMW Sauber last year at Valencia introduced a new gearbox then, so could that be them using the same one that they designed and "tested" since then for the Ferarri 056 power plant. Another way they could go is buy in the Ferarri transmission for an additional $5million a season, but i think id prefer giving the BMW Sauber one a try with the 056 first.

One other "new" team that should also be discussed id Mercedes GP, they have to design and manufacture a new gearbox for the new season as last year they were using the Honda RA808E desidned box' for the Mercedes F0108W, and this will be the big area of mechanical expenditure here.

But more or less every team will have to design and build a new gearbox for 2010 as all gearboxes this year will be Holmogonised this year the same way in 2007 the engines got simmilar treatment, this is for cost saving purposes, and for the alleged 2011 rule for gearboxes where they follow a simmilar rule to engines, between 4 and 6 per season per driver, whitch means teams will not have to carry up to 6 to 8 gearboxes to each GP.

Standard spec gearbox casing is aluminium. However CF gearbox casing have been around since 2002. will this be a differance in overall car performance?

Anyway who are the current teams that are using a CF gearbox casing?

[ESPImperium]

Standard spec gearbox casing is aluminium. However CF gearbox casing have been around since 2002. will this be a differance in overall car performance?

Anyway who are the current teams that are using a CF gearbox casing?

From what i can tell, only Ferarri use Carbon casings. However, id not be surprised to see a couple others doing so as well.

I know that Red Bull/STR use Aluminium.

[Sawtooth-spike]

Don't honda/Brawn/Silver Arrows have them? I thought they invented it back in there BAR days.

[Scotracer]

Don't honda/Brawn/Silver Arrows have them? I thought they invented it back in there BAR days.

Yes BAR had a CF casing a while back and surely they carried it over when they became Brawn (and now Mercedes).

[marcush.]

on page 8 of the F60 thread bar555 states the f60 gearbox indeed is a titanium casting clad with a carbonfibre cover to increase stiffness.

in earlier years Ferrari did have a cast titanium skeletton with carbonfibre walls .
So it looks like only
Mercedes/Brawn still is completely carbonfibre with titanium bulkheads only .

[scarbs]

In 2009 there were five carbon gearboxes, if we include hybrid cased teams such as Ferrari and Renault which still use a significant amount of titanium in the structure and not just for hard points within the suspension\gear cluster. McLaren and Honda (Brawn) have had carbon cases for many years (IIRC 2003). Ferrari joined this party a few years ago with their hybrid case. Renault moved the hybrid case for 2009 and lastly Red Bull moved to a carbon case (quietly) from the start of the European season. In 2009 Force India took the entire McLaren gearbox. These facts confirmed to me by teams themselves.
I doubt any further shifts towards carbon for 2010, as rear end lightness is not as critical with the narrower front tyres. Gearbox length (that is case length from engine to differential, as it affects wheelbase) could go either way for 2010, to move weight rearwards the teams should shorten the gearbox. However for aero reasons a longer gearbox could still be advantageous, thus a long gearbox with rear placed ballast, might be the preferred option. This might also be preferred for teams placing their oil tank between engine and gearbox to create more space for fuel.

For 2010. I have cross checked with Lotus and Weismann, Weismann are not involved with USF1 and it was Gascoyne at Lotus who told me the Campos were using their own case, with the standard internals.
As Sauber’s 2009 B-spec gearbox was a BMW part, it will not race in 2010. They could go either way with their own or a Ferrari ‘box. I’m sure Brawn\Merc will continue to develop their own ‘box, as they have had a lead in Carbon Case and Cluster design for many years (the even have a carbon cross shaft twixt output shaft and differential!).

In 2009
Ferrari – Carbon\Ti
McLaren - Carbon
BMW – Ti
Renault – Carbon\Ti
Red Bull Racing - Carbon
Toro Rosso - Aluminium
Williams - Aluminium
Toyota - Aluminium
Brawn - Carbon
FI – McLaren Carbon

New for 2010
Lotus – Std transmission and case
Campos Meta – Std transmission
USF1 – Not known, but confirmed not Weismann
VF1 – Not known

[FW17]

With a large fuel tank in the car the some say wheel base is going increase by 15 cms (which I understand is a bad thing in terms of being nibble). Will a transverse gearbox layout help in countering this? or will this be too much of a compromise in terms of rear aero packaging?

[FW17]

BAR gearbox

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzMdXbqM3tg[/youtube]

[ISLAMATRON]

I love speed for these Steve Machette pieces, does ITV and BBC get this type of in depth look into the tech of the cars or is it even better?

And if they do where can I access them?

[FW17]

I am sure a lot will be available on USF1 this season with their association with Speed and Youtube.