"Working" tyres hard

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Mystery Steve
Mystery Steve
3
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 07:04
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

Re: "Working" tyres hard

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DaveW wrote:
Mystery Steve wrote: And you can pick it up for only $375 on Amazon. Yikes... I think I'll pass on that one for now.
Steve, Not cheap, I know, but if you are interested you might try abebooks.com (USD145 in "very good" condition). Not sure about published date, abe's list seems to vary....

I have ordered Pacejka's book & will compare the two when I have them both, if you wish.
Hmmm... I've never used abebooks.com. Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely keep the book in mind, but I think I have enough reading to do for the moment.

If you don't mind posting some of kind of review comparing the two, it would be greatly appreciated. It never hurts to hear others' opinions.

DaveW
DaveW
239
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: "Working" tyres hard

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sidny wrote: I think you'll both find it's "patronising".

couldn't resist , sorry.
No problem... but I think you will find either spelling passes muster, see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/patronizing.

DaveW
DaveW
239
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: "Working" tyres hard

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ubrben wrote:First off; Dave this is the latest version of the seminal text: http://www.tiresociety.org/mainpages/nhtsa.htmlBen
Ben, thanks for the reference, I appreciate it. I expect Mystery Steve will too, at USD10 per copy (I guess that barely covers the cost of the ink)!
ubrben wrote:So F1eng, if we can't drop the pressure, what do we do? I suppose the dampers can be adjusted to create more dynamic tyre deflection for a given input?
I suspect that the front axle of a modern F1 vehicle is rather too stiff for tyres to be affected significantly by damping style (for symmetrical inputs, anyway). My guess would be that inerters are used for the purpose (or were last year).

lz2lps
lz2lps
3
Joined: 28 Apr 2009, 14:37
Location: Bulgaria

Re: "Working" tyres hard

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Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: "Working" tyres hard

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Mystery Steve wrote:Are there any specific topics that you take issue with in Haney's book? Better yet, when you refer to "misleading or incorrect information," do you mean entire topics in a broad sense or are you referring to the details of the book?

The reason I ask is because Haney's book is not so much a technical book, but rather a layman's description of what tires are and how they work. I'm looking at it more as a primer just to get my brain churning before I dive into more detailed material. So far, I feel it has been useful in accomplishing that simple goal. However, if there are gross errors with the book, I'd like to hear about it now before I head too far down the wrong path.
Eh, some of the specifics I'm not gonna publicly disclose. Others I'd rather have the book in front of me to reference. Like I said, it's been a while since I've even looked at it.

Paul does a good job of collecting information regarding race tires from various people. The issue though, is that by the time it's in the book it's already a 2nd- or 3rd-hand story based on someone's own personal experience or speculation. Some is close, some is way off target.

Depends what you want to know. Since there are few global truths to this stuff, I always encourage people asking specific questions. Good to discuss at FSAE events.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: "Working" tyres hard

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I do have Paul Haneys books(including the tyre book) ,and of course I have exactly those feelings JT has offered .theres some good points in there but there are also some areas where he does get vague and at times hes completely wrong in his explanations ,at least to my understanding that seems to be not much worth anyways.
Coming back to the pressure thing discussed here and the word that you can´t just alter tyre pressure to make the tyre work as this influences the whole setup of the car ...so Jock Clear will not call for a quick an d dirty drop of a few psi to make the tyre work...Yes absolutely .But in my view this is the all and thereabouts of car setup.If you have optimised the setup for wrong tyre pressures (giving you not perfect contact patches ,giving you increased or too low temps ) you are ill advised to stay were you are and not move ,as the potential will be not be used to the max.So in effect the pressures are not a means of adjusting the car really ,but there is a best pressure that yields the maximum contact patch for a given track and condition .The art is to get the setup into the window to get the cold pressures you choose into this window (hot pressure)as fast as possible for remain there as long as posssible.