Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[SZ]

Tbox, most teams were better coupling them last year already - you could see it on wet tests quite clearly. Toyota was great from day 1.

Pup, it's not quite the same discussion. But if you've got objections to the way it's brought about, fair enough. FWIW I've not been reading since page 40 (nor am I going to backtrack - don't have the time).

What you're describing for viz over a two-element wing in high downforce configuration is quite normal. There's something more interesting going on at mid span but nothing terribly definitive. If it is intended to occasionally stall the wing, the sear forces on the flow viz mixture are going to be greater when flow it attached, and over a few laps' worth of drying off you'd more likely see the effect of the wing working normally.

[marcush.]

what i don´t understand with that paint applying is :how can you see anything after a run ,when you have done acceleration in all possible directions and seen a speed delta of possibly 250 km ? this does only make sense if you are able to monitor the
development of flow patterns during the run ,right? did i miss the video capture of the critical areas?

also with these big appendages on the car ,isn´t this influencing the flow fields you try to map? with 20 pitot tubes sticking in the air this must create a new situation .

[Richard]

it's not quite the same discussion.

I think I'm missing something. How does your scenario differ/compare to the earlier one posted by ringo and pup?

There's something more interesting going on at mid span but nothing terribly definitive.

Again, what are you seeing?

[segedunum]

The discussions about what McLaren may or may not be up to, from the mythical dead zone to stalling wings in various ways, have been legion on this thread. Nothing definitive that McLaren could actually get working has been agreed upon. Personally, I have a hard time believing that they can get anything working reliably around what has been discussed in anything like a passive manner, especially if the 'concept' is a variable that they want working in one instance and definitely don't want it working in another.

SZ's scenarios do not differ to those already discussed, unless he can go into more detail about the thinking. Even then, it's such a narrow area of development I have a hard time believing it will actually work, as with all the other concepts, similar or otherwise, discussed before.

The fact of the matter is that McLaren are now pre-season testing and they simply do not have the time right now to wander down an uncharted and narrow research and development route. It's too late now. It now appears that this is what they are doing beyond just plain data gathering, and I can't see it being a wise decision. Unless they really are in trouble, but their times still look OK.

[SZ]

marcush, what creates most shear before the carrier dries off leaves an impression. Those appendages aren't likely massively influencing the rear wing flow, are the running them concurrently anyway?

RL, the notion it's likely active or pseudo active. Wasn't aware it may or may not have been mentioned, and as stated, not going back to page 40. Possibly they've jsut managed a smaller sidepod and a bit less weight by simply moving the oil cooler nearer to the engine, and living with the CG penalty. Without KERS you'd probably manage a smaller sidepod this year on one side, and moving the HE for the oil circuit up top is another method. It might jut be that.

The angularity on the main plane at mid-span is a bit odd against what you'd see in a tunnel but then again it's track viz and the car is turning in predominantly one direction only. Bit of a bump in the separation about the centre but it's hard to tell if it's of any significance at this res or over a whole lap. As stated, nothing terribly definitive.

segedunum, this might just be their std development path. Bar the PS tubes it's likely every team runs on-track flow viz but not mixed as... obviously. Last year was quite different, they ran around with an illegally large rear wing for a while simulating a rear load that it turned out they didn't quite have, then ended up dropping their diffuser expansion, adding vortex generators, the lot. These were all last-minute solutions that didn't require any tooling changes and so were quite rushed. No evidence of a problem of similar magnitude yet, they're not doing similarly. But still early days in testing. It could well play out as you suggest, but they're not quite there yet.

[Richard]

The fact of the matter is that McLaren are now pre-season testing and they simply do not have the time right now to wander down an uncharted and narrow research and development route. It's too late now. It now appears that this is what they are doing beyond just plain data gathering

Does it? Looks to me like they have obsessive data acquisition rather than any panic or uncharted R&D.

The only uncharted territory I've seen is some "what if" discussions on here.

[segedunum]

this might just be their std development path.

It might well be and McLaren do like their data. The only thing that would worry me is that they're doing rather a lot of it now. If they'd done this over a couple of days at Valencia and then concentrated on other things at Jerez then fair enough, but honestly, I'd start worrying about other things.

[segedunum]

Does it? Looks to me like they have obsessive data acquisition rather than any panic or uncharted R&D.

The only uncharted territory I've seen is some "what if" discussions on here.

McLaren are doing what they're doing for a reason, and it can't just be data acquisition. They've spent most of their test sessions doing it now to the detriment of some running. They aren't doing it for the goodness of their health and to fill a few NAS drives where they have a spare few gigabytes.

[horse]

"A Formula 1 car is a Formula 1 car. There are different ways of getting the best car, but the feeling I have in the car is not that dissimilar to what I'm used to driving. It's not a completely different style of design."

Interesting to hear Jenson's take on the driver/design issue. He obviously feels there are differences out there, although this kind of backs up the neutral design arguments, in that the McLaren can suit both Button and Hamilton.

[myurr]

McLaren are doing what they're doing for a reason, and it can't just be data acquisition. They've spent most of their test sessions doing it now to the detriment of some running. They aren't doing it for the goodness of their health and to fill a few NAS drives where they have a spare few gigabytes.

Says who?

They've been running with and without the aero kit, have racked up a healthy number of laps, put in respectable times, and look like they're the team with the new aero ideas and not your beloved Red Bull.

McLaren are known for being a well organised, meticulous F1 team. After last years issues why is it so difficult to believe that they've adjusted their standard practices and procedures to take into account what they learnt?

From the Red Bull RB6 forum:

It might well all be over now as I've predicted unfortunately. They have a proven, winning car that they've already tested much of last season and the way they've packaged the car with the additional fuel alone suggests to me that they might well run and hide. It could well take other teams the best part of a year to catch up with that, and many of them might need to design new cars...

With quotes like that I'm not sure how much objective insight you feel you're going to be able to give as to what McLaren should or shouldn't be doing, and how much trouble you feel they're already in.

[thestig84]

myurr I couldn't have put it better myself

[Pup]

What were McLaren trying to hide today?

http://twitpic.com/12lyuj

They haven't seem too concerned over hiding their diffuser before. Did they try some new parts this afternoon?

[chasefreak]

What were McLaren trying to hide today?

http://twitpic.com/12lyuj

They haven't seem too concerned over hiding their diffuser before. Did they try some new parts this afternoon?

that is something really interesting ..... hope we get to know wats going on there

[jason.parker.86]

Doubt anything interesting. Maybe just want to stop close ups of the DDD

[myurr]

Button was quoted as saying they were doing back to back testing of various components - maybe a new diffuser was amongst them.