Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[SLC]

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/02/1 ... /#comments

Macca had a blown flap at MONACO 09. It's for increased downforce not reduced drag. @SLC: you're wrong. drop it.

I already posted and said that the 2010 rear wing effect is the opposite of the 2009 wing effect.

The blown flap last year was to prevent stalling.

This year it is to induce stalling.

Scarbs is wrong, unfortunately. He is quite a lot of the time.

[mstar]

well scarbs is actually at the tests and is going to barcelona test, so its more info then we have

[SLC]

Dude Please!!! Increasing energy under the wing(with a stream of air) to decrease seperation would give increase in effiency. More benefit over entire lap and much more plausible because it doesn't require near as much air as eliminating the low pressure zone would.

Unfortunately it seems it is too difficult to argue with people who are unwilling to listen.

You are somewhat correct. Increasing the energy along the suction surface of a wing will help its performance. This is what McLaren and BMW were doing last year. This year McLaren are trying to stall the wing. It's the opposite effect.

Sources?

My phd in ground vehicle aerodynamics and my copious years designing F1 cars.

[mstar]

SLC does it give any laptime advantage, as i am thinking this concept is not used by many cars at all. Sorry i am not a techical person like you guys, so dnt pretend to either

[Raptor22]

ah the std answer, quote the highest quaification + closest association with the sport.

until you show me pictures of a car running around a track with a stalled rear wing I won;t beleive it.

Besides, if you're an F1 designer, where do you find the time to post on internet forums?

[raceman]

Besides, if you're an F1 designer, where do you find the time to post on internet forums?

quite rite

[Richard]

Sources?

My phd in ground vehicle aerodynamics and my copious years designing F1 cars.

I was referring to the "been working on it for 3 years" bit.

[SLC]

I was referring to the "been working on it for 3 years" bit.

Ah. Well there's the convenient bit - I can't say where I know this!

[SLC]

ah the std answer, quote the highest quaification + closest association with the sport.

until you show me pictures of a car running around a track with a stalled rear wing I won;t beleive it.

Besides, if you're an F1 designer, where do you find the time to post on internet forums?

Whatever.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

The only problem I have with the stalling idea is this:

And please note SLC I'm not flaming you or attacking you, I'm simply stating wat I know and would like to be enlightened if possible.

I've got a BEng(hons) in Aerospace Engineering, so I do know about aerodynamics, tho I DO NOT have the knowledge that SLC has.

But it is my understanding that a blown flap will delay the onset of stall. It's as simple as that. How can a blown flap enduce stall (unless the direction of the blow is opposite to the direction of flow? lol)

Furthermore, fundamentally, if I wing is stalling it increases drag, simple as.

Obviously there could be far more complex things going on here than I understand, hence my asking. (For example imagine my suprise when I first learn of compressible flow, when a divergent nozzle actually INCREASES flow velocity lol)

But to my knowledge those two point I make, make the whole concept of deliberatly stalling a wing seem not only pointless to an F1 team but also counter-productive.

[autogyro]

Surely in the very simplest terms.
Stalling any lift surface increases drag but channeling a reasonable volume of air to a different area can be used to reduce drag?

Interesting work by McLaren anyway.

[zgred]

[Poleman]

The only differences i could spot in this pic was those ducts behind the front wing and that today are running only one side vent.

[horse]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I thought, maybe that splitting off the stalled wing argument might be a good idea, as it's so theoretical and possibly not related to this car.

So I made a new thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8028

Please come and share your ideas (possibly over and over again)

[wesley123]

dont know if its already said, but i saw those slits from another view(on the sidepods) And i came to an conclusion, it keeps the flow attached to the sidepod(dunno if such an object can stall though).

It was some sort of wing in front of the wing wich allowed it to be run at larger angles to stall, i think that is what it does on the sidepod.