Has Alonso learned to be a team player?

[WhiteBlue]

This is the third attempt to have a discussion of the following story about Fernando Alonso

Alonso more prepared after McLaren disaster

I tried to discuss it in the Alonso technical thread to be told it was off topic.

I tried to add it to the Alonso McLaren good bye thread to be told it was thread bumping. This good work by the moderators may be seen as house keeping. To me it feels like suppression of opinion.

Now I will give it it's own thread as we do with news posted by other media. I think that it was nicely fitting with the old Alonso good bye thread and we got some contributions. This is why I gave a link. I'm curious which forum rules will be used for the next attempt to stop a completely legitimate discussion.

2007 was very difficult but I learnt a lot personally. It was good for my career to take that step of joining McLaren and growing up. I learned how to work with a team and also to withstand the media pressure. The difficulties I had were coming from the team and the media. Now I am much more prepared for everything in Formula One – and in life as well.

Do any of the Alonso fans think that their man has used the McLaren experience as a lesson to become a team player?

As I said in the previous thread:

Well, the story at least reminded us that our beloved top drivers have selected awareness, selected memory and selected consciousness. It probably goes with the job. Ferdinand is no different to other greats in the sport. I hope at least the bit about learning to work with the team was true.

Alonso goes on to compare the situation with other teams:

People are only writing these things because they know we are very strong. Felipe and I work for the team. After so many years of course I have battled with Felipe. It's the way it is – and we'll keep having these fights. But Michael Schumacher and Rosberg will have fights at Mercedes. I am sure Lewis and Jenson Button will have fights at McLaren. Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel will have fights at Red Bull – in fact they were fighting last year already. But no one talks about this. They talk about it with Ferrari because we are in a good position.

Unless I'm very mistaken we have talked a lot about the other great driver and his likely team mate relationship. This certainly is a case of selective awareness by Alonso.

Apart from the previous Alonso/Hamilton rift the public has good reasons to believe that the relationship between Bulk and Ferdinand will not be all honeymoon. Bulk has publicly accused Ferdinand to have had knowledge of the Crashgate conspiracy which he thinks cost him the WDC 2008.

[carvetia]

At risk of being seen to 'take the bait', I don't see how after two failed attempts, dressing the same topic up in a new thread is going to suddenly make this third crack at it any more succesful. I am not going on the attack as i have been around long enough to appreciate the large contribution you do make to the forum. However, the internet is full to the brim with highly subjective analysis of Alonso's character traits, to which this makes no new contribution. I really enjoy lurking in this forum for its technical merits, an aspect of F1 that this topic does not contribute to in any way, and only serves to drag the vitriol from other corners of the web into this largely flame-free environment. I find it very hard to believe there is anyone who wouldn't learn something from that experience, but as to whether they've learnt what you want them to, that's just never-ending speculation.

Cheers.

[Pup]

If he's still talking about it, then he hasn't learned a thing.

Much like this thread?

[marcush.]

If he's still talking about it, then he hasn't learned a thing.

Much like this thread?

+1

[myurr]

Unlike the others I see this as being a valid talking point - it is a news story of the day.

Personally I don't think he's learnt a thing, primarily because he's trying to spin his blackmailing of Ron Dennis as helping the FIA out with their investigations. And his whole being in the wrong place at the wrong time, when it was clear that he was central to using the information with his buddy Pedro DLR.

That said I am pretty biased against Alonso as I've disliked him ever since he charged into Mark Webbers wreckage in Brasil when he was a rookie, saying that he deliberately ignored the waved yellows as he thought he could gain an advantage which to me is one of the worst things a driver can ever do. To me that incident has provided the backdrop for all his subsequent actions, and whilst you always hope that people can change there have been many incidents since that have suggested that he has not.

Time will tell, but I expect that if Massa pushes him as much as I expect then the toys will be flying, and probably the pram as well!

[Giblet]

Read the latest interview with him in F1 magazine.

It is quite a good read, and answers this thread quite well. Leaves very little room for speculation. He was asked very direct questions, and answered them directly, except he was subtle in places he needed to be, talking about teammates and such.

If you don't think he has grown since Mclaren, humbled by two years at Renault, you underestimate the man for sure.

[segedunum]

Of course he hasn't learned anything. The fact that he is being over-analytical and introspective about it tells you that he thinks it's still a problem. I sincerely hope Ferrari don't have any skeletons in their cupboard (fairly unlikely) because he has made it extremely clear he will shop a team for his own ends, and he's trying to get over to Ferrari that he won't do that to them. I just wonder if internally Ferrari are a little bit worried about him, because it's an intensely political environment.

As for being humbled by two years at Renault, he was involved in yet another scandal there, albeit indirectly, and managed to wrangle his way out of that team a year early.

[Mr Alcatraz]

The Jury is obviously still out!


Hail Caesar

[WhiteBlue]

With probably 80% of the racing world Alonso expects to dominate Massa. This is the reason why he looks forward to everybody being a team player. All he has to do is give some interviews in the early season saying that he will be a good boy and make sure he collects more points.

In the unlikely event that fate deals him a nasty blow and he misses some races I would like to see how much of a team mate he will be.

BTW, the initial voting in this thread shows that the Ferrari PR went wrong.

[myurr]

With probably 80% of the racing world Alonso expects to dominate Massa.

And this is where I think things are going to go wrong - the world is mostly basing this on the way Schumacher dominated Massa, as most think that Alonso is as good as MSc.

Personally I think that Massa is a much tougher competitor and better driver than when he was paired with MSc, he's really grown in the last couple of seasons in large part due to Rob Smedley. I also think that whilst Alonso is very good and possibly the toughest competitor on the grid mental strength wise (on track), I don't think he's as fast as Schumacher.

And this from someone who also really really disliked MSc, so definitely not a fan boy!!

[Miguel]

I'd like to see a fourth option in the poll, reading something like "Has McLaren learned to be a true team?".

Everybody has selective memory, and most people will treat you like an ass is they feel you are doing the same to them. Take from this the conclusions you want. Oh, and I feel this post is a rather poor attempt at trolling, TxuriUrdin.

[Giblet]

Of course he hasn't learned anything. The fact that he is being over-analytical and introspective about it tells you that he thinks it's still a problem. I sincerely hope Ferrari don't have any skeletons in their cupboard (fairly unlikely) because he has made it extremely clear he will shop a team for his own ends, and he's trying to get over to Ferrari that he won't do that to them. I just wonder if internally Ferrari are a little bit worried about him, because it's an intensely political environment.

As for being humbled by two years at Renault, he was involved in yet another scandal there, albeit indirectly, and managed to wrangle his way out of that team a year early.

OF COURSE.

There is nothing you don't know. Let's just all stop posting and listen to you. Your proven track record and expert style of talking down to this forum is not getting tiresome at all. You don't need to learn to post your opinion as such, and should just state it as fact. What you know must be right as it your opinion.

Ill just put a little /s here for good measure, so you don't get a big head.

Just like you and everyone else, all I can offer is opinion, unless I back up with fact.

His wrangling was more because Ferrari wanted him early cuz Kimi was getting old and not a team player. This has been stated by Massa, and is not conjecture. His contract gave him means to get out, especially since his team was caught cheating, which is an automatic out for any driver due to unsportsmanlike behavior. Also fact.

That is next part is my opinion and I could be wrong.

He has learned something, if he hasn't he isn't human, or is so dense, that he never will.

This next part, is factual.

I am not here to defend his previous actions, but I am also not here to predict his future actions, or present state of mind.

I look forward to you going off and breaking down every conversation and post point by point.

(/s)

[Skunk0001]

Of course he hasn't learned anything. The fact that he is being over-analytical and introspective about it tells you that he thinks it's still a problem.

I would disagree with that. In order to resolve a problem you need to first accept it exists, and its always worthwhile to remember past mistakes to make sure you don't repeat them.

I would presume he realized he wasn’t the best at coping in situations like he found himself in, and that was to the determent of his performance, and as any professional sportsman would, he made an attempt to change.

If he was going around making out that he did nothing wrong, that nothing needed changed and that he doesn’t know what the fuss is about then that would make me more inclined to expect a repeat.

To presume that he got where he is today without being able (and willing) to analyze, learn, and adapt his approach to his job, would also mean having to accept that he's so good he never needed to change.

I don't doubt that he would like to be number one (who wouldn't?), but first and foremost he wants to win the WDC, and he's probably realised to do that you need the team behind you, so I don't think he'd have much of a problem doing the teamwork approach if it gave him more chance of winning, and in Ferrari that appears to be his only choice.

By the way, I feel the exact same could be said about any driver with the same level of experience.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, three times is a charm.

Clearly, it's WB vs Alonso. Who will win?

My opinion: no, Alonso hasn't learned to be a team player, never has, never will. That's one of his qualities.

Complaining about ego in F1 is like complaining about non-technical, purely opinion threads, that seem to drip venom and merely echo the type of programs you find at "E! channel": a waste of time. This thread is sorely missed at Pitpass.

Please, don't report stupid posts in this thread: I assume there is no way to post something intelligent here (altough The Pup manages to escape this tendency, I don't know how).

[RedMaple]

BTW, the initial voting in this thread shows that the Ferrari PR went wrong.

Clearly an objective observation from an accurate sample of the population. Thank God there are no subjective moanings on this forum.