Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[marcush.]

It's measure, quantify, check and action. The latter is the real kicker, because without it the former three are useless. I still question the whole 'data gathering' thing at this late stage. It's highly doubtful they're going to turn all that data they seem to be gathering into action. It will take weeks - if the data is actually still relevant by then.

As far as I can figure out, Button and Hamilton are doing the action bit. The team can still do their tyre and set up evaluations. It just happens that a geek has stuck a measuring device on the car, and it probably makes negligible difference to the car's performance.

Just like another geek has stuck on various ducts to plan ahead for the hot races.

Yes turning data into action will take a couple of weeks. Just in time for the inevitable aero update in Australia, Malaysia or China

I seriously doubt that putting all those devices has less of an effect than a non optised mirror shape or a bargeboard not placed exactly into design position.
putting a bunch of cables and tubes in front of the radiator inlet duct or behind the rearwing surely has an influence in itself and you will only know after cross checking the performance of the car without those devices what it does in quantity.Couldn´t they use smoke generation to visaulize the flows also on the track?
Could the driver feel it? we heard of drivers loosing concentration because of an advertisement in th approach to Loews corner ,so anything is possible.

[bcoxa]

Could it be that the data gathering is for use with McLarens simulator?

[Vasco]

Is it just me or are those front brake ducts really huge. I would love to see how they compare with other cars.

[Giblet]

A 10th of a second a lap is what, 6-7 seconds over a race distance? Oh that's not worth pursuing at all.

You got laughed out of this thread for thinking that Mclaren are panic measuring, by experts, but here you are again.

It's a shame, you have some good posts until you start arguing, and the cookoo clock goes off.

And on the check and action front, what should they do for chcking and action, at the track? Make a new wing out of duct tape and paper?

Think about it.

the real problem is :how could you possibly quantify an imrovement of 1tenth of a second per lap on a test environment we currently see?

Easily Marcush.

That 10th is an arbitrary number, and the equipment on the car's rear wing is not measuring time, as you know. It is measuring the effect that the wing produces, which we don't fully understand, but Mclaren does, maybe not fully, and for sure more more than us common folk.

Since they are likely measuring the air flow out of that wing, and it's pretty obvious that whatever they are doing is making the wing perform like a one with less of an attack angle at speed, or giving it less drag over all at every speed, they can extrapolate what it will do to lap times if it working properly. Just the same as if they added or removed another click or two to the wing.

The 10th would be a gain, that they could be extrapolated from the wings performance, assuming it is just a 10th. Maybe it drops the over all CFG, another easy number to plug in to figure out effect on lap times.

Hmmm.... turns out I really like saying extrapolate. A very fun word

[marcush.]

it is this sort of extrapolation that accounts for the mysterious 6ths we hear every now and then ,I assume...

you are mixing apples with oranges here I believe ,and hope you forgive me for that statement...
I´m talking about laptime you are talking of downforce.
If you are able to crank down the wings because of a better efficiency +1 so you might be a bit quicker on the straight.
Adding downforce will not necessarily lower laptime that is my position .
You sure will be able to document a higher vertical load ,as you will be able to document a improved flow thru the rads .Both will not help in lap time if they were not limiting your performance.
In a gross exagerration ,go to Montecarlo with the steering rack for all other circuits and destroy your laptimes again and again with a haraakiri manoevre in Loews to get the truck around there.
You might be able to sport the absolute ultimate high downforce package for Monaco
having the potential to lap every oponent in lap 10 but that is not showing as you have to reverse every second lap after missing the only entry point feasible for your steering layout.
thats my 2 cent ,

[myurr]

has that front snorkel changed again

That's what I said but was rebuffed by someone saying that it was like that in Jerez.

[chasefreak]

Is it just me or are those front brake ducts really huge. I would love to see how they compare with other cars.

there u go... u will all u want to see

[Giblet]

fair enough, but I am saying they are likely not measuring downforce either. You can't measure that without the car being on a rig of some kind. That would be better done at the factory, in the tunnel. Run, 1 click, run again, percentage measured.

But this device, if it does what I think, which might be wrong, is make the wing in one configuration act as if it is of another shallower configuration at speed. Using air to the same effect as Ferrari's bending wings of the past (and some say the present). Since the rolling road at the factory has a speed limit (not sure how high), it might be impossible to see this effect until the car is going 150mph+, another arbitrary number for the sake of discussion.

So for what I am possibly wrongly assuming, is that they are measuring the air flow out of the back of the wing. Once that measurement is quantified, they will have put their theory to the test. This goes in line with the covering and opening of the hole in the top of the intake, to test if their system is doing what so many speculate.

So much more fun discussing with people instead of arguing

Also, those devices they had on the intake would make an effect on the performance of the car, but if they are downstream from what they are measuring, like the front wing and how much air pit puts in the side intakes, then it has no effect on the front wing.

Basically, all we can do is guess what and why they are measuring, but unlike some others here, I assume they are not doing it in a panic.

[Shaddock]

If you think back McLaren have completely aero mapped their car on the track, in the ‘real world’ rather than just the wind tunnel and using CFD, which they undoubtedly would have done as well. They started just with pitot tubes behind the front wings, then moved further backwards to the sidepods, further down to the undercut, back again to shark-fin and then finally hung them off the rear wing.

With a testing ban this is the only time to fine-tune your modelling software back in the office so aero developments during the year perform as expected on the track.

[Hangaku]

I think that's pretty much nailed it Shaddock =D>

[conni]

Conni,
It is possibleto design and build a new wing within 4 days if you can run 3x8hr shifts.

Design can take one shift if you know where you need to be going in terms of design concept.
the design can be validated in CFD in a few hours
Mould construction will take the bulk of the time even with a CAD/CAM system in place.
carbon layup and autoclaving (curing) will take a full 24hrs but that can be rushed down to around 8hrs if you comfortable with the risk of endng up with a more brittle component than intended.

Possible, but probably not desired to crash the critical path for a project like this.

they run 24hrs a day 7 days a week all year except the 2 week shutdown and xmass day,boxing day and new years day

conni

[horse]

they run 24hrs a day 7 days a week all year except the 2 week shutdown and xmass day,boxing day and new years day

conni

Wow, I've always been impressed by this. The information management required to get all of the shifts "on message" must be a real challenge.

[axle]

On that picture you can also see, either side of the 'e' of Vodafone on the nose, that there are 2 holes.

They appear to be bolt holes for attaching the nose.

[Just_a_fan]

On that picture you can also see, either side of the 'e' of Vodafone on the nose, that there are 2 holes.

They appear to be bolt holes for attaching the nose.

You might be right. I've been trying to find a clear veiw of the side of the nose in that area to see if there are enough additional holes on the sides for the nose fixings.

I seem to remember seeing one design (a year or two ago) that had a hook affair for the top fixings and just 'bolts' for the lower fixings. Such an arrangement could be being used here to allow for suspension adjustment.

I guess we'll know for sure once we see a decent "nose off" front end shot in the garage.

[thestig84]

they run 24hrs a day 7 days a week all year except the 2 week shutdown and xmass day,boxing day and new years day

conni

Wow, I've always been impressed by this. The information management required to get all of the shifts "on message" must be a real challenge.

The wind tunnel is not run 24-7. There are not 4 shifts in place to cover it! However they will be running it a lot this time of year!