McLaren have chosen some interesting design routes on their new competitor. In addition to our own technical analysis, McLaren's Tim Goss and Paddy Lowe explain why some decisions have been made in light of the regulation changes.
It's not that simple. There are regulations that rule out what a driver can have an involvement in, but there are specific rules on aerodynamics that don't make any exceptions for driver involvement. There are also regulations that can cover not just the cause but also the effect that any system can have on aerodynamics and where. Naturally, there are exceptions for the front wing. What regulations take precedence? That's the issue here.Giblet wrote:Changeable aerodynamic device, that has no moving parts, so it is legal, as the driver is not a part of a system according to the rules, even if they act as one.
If it was to get banned they will be well over a second behind with no straight line speed advantage. 
Move on to what, exactly? It's only now that a discussion can be feasibly had about it, and its effectiveness, now we have some certainty after pages of meaningless twaddle about it - which is where the proper discussion should have started.We understand your points, and we are trying to move on, as since the system is now a legal part of the car, we have moved on, like I think it would be healthy for you to.
The notion that a driver can simply do something with the throttle if a system like this misbehaves is silly. Trying to deflect blame away from the system by saying that sometimes crashes happen of their own accord is.....ludicrous. The simple fact is that you don't know what effect it will have, McLaren don't, the FIA don't and neither does anyone else. Point made. That's why such systems that have differing effects on aerodynamics, and could suffer a large loss in downforce should they malfunction, have been banned in the past.If the system gets stuck in a corner, the driver adjust the throttle. If not he goes in the gravel, maybe hits a wall. Racing cars do that sometimes, simply by pilot error.
I don't really see how their hard springing will help over a longer distance with more weight. It's going to make it a hell of a lot worse, and what made them think that they had to set up that way in the first place? Things don't smell right. They might well not finish tomorrow, as a few other teams might not with tyre issues, but that McLaren just looked plain awful. It moved around a hell of a lot and they're not going to solve that by tomorrow. The middle sector is their problem, but it is representative and it's the same for everyone.autogyro wrote:Anyway both McLarens looked a handful in quali, they may be better with their hard springing and full tank in the race.
Yep. I think Bridgestone need to have a long hard look at the tyres they're providing. Anything could happen tomorrow.The compounds at Bahrain do not seem to be good enough and tmr will be very interesting.
Don't worry the cars will definitely finish!segedunum wrote:The car is just plain slow, unbalanced and doesn't want to go through corners. The middle sector tells you that straight away, whether it's the new part of a track or not. It has corners in it and the McLaren has a lot of trouble there.
I don't really see how their hard springing will help over a longer distance with more weight. It's going to make it a hell of a lot worse, and what made them think that they had to set up that way in the first place? Things don't smell right. They might well not finish tomorrow, as a few other teams might not with tyre issues, but that McLaren just looked plain awful. It moved around a hell of a lot and they're not going to solve that by tomorrow. The middle sector is their problem, but it is representative and it's the same for everyone.autogyro wrote:Anyway both McLarens looked a handful in quali, they may be better with their hard springing and full tank in the race.
The McLaren engineer with a pen through his fingers and his head in his hands said it all. I can smell an interesting debrief coming up.
Yep. I think Bridgestone need to have a long hard look at the tyres they're providing. Anything could happen tomorrow.The compounds at Bahrain do not seem to be good enough and tmr will be very interesting.
That is probably going to slow the car down a bit.Speed TV wrote:F1: FIA Tells McLaren To Scrap Bahrain-Spec Diffuser
The wing on the McLaren MP4-25 isn't the only thing causing a stir...
SPEED Staff / GMM | Posted March 13, 2010
Not only is the new wing on the MP4-25 causing controversy the FIA has informed the team not to show up at the next race sporting the same double diffiuser.
Lost in the din of the new 'knee-gate' saga, another technical controversy involving McLaren's 2010 car has escaped the attention of the media.
The British team has been told by the FIA that the diffuser it is using this weekend in Bahrain may not be fitted to the MP4-25 in Melbourne in two weeks.
While the knee-activated air inlet system has been slammed by angry rivals and attracted widespread press coverage after clearance by the FIA, the car's Sakhir-spec double diffuser was less favorably looked upon by inspectors.
Germany's Auto Motor und Sport said McLaren aerodynamically exploited the hole for the external engine starter, making it much bigger than necessary and thereby gaining another diffuser level.
After the enormous diffuser controversy of 2009, the saga has been kept quiet by McLaren simply agreeing to scrap the design after the checkered flag waves in Bahrain on Sunday.
The British team has been told by the FIA that the diffuser it is using this weekend in Bahrain may not be fitted to the MP4-25 in Melbourne in two weeks.
???????????????????????Focusing on movable parts won't help you, although something still needs to move to make this work - that's the bottom line. The driver provides the specific moving part here, providing cause and effect it seems, and the argument goes that he is excluded. That's the justification. OK. We know that. However, there are aerodynamic regulations that do not provide that exception and go into devices and systems that specifically change the aerodynamics.autogyro wrote:If the people saying the McLaren system is illegal would please describe exactly the moving aerodynamic parts that they seem to be using to justify their ideas. If they cannot describe 'exactly' what this part is I suggest they STFU.
Uh, huh.We know who you are Motezemolo. hahaha
I don't understand either. Surely it's illegal now? Or do the FIA know that they've made a ballsup of interpreting the regulations again that could get ugly should official protestations start?donskar wrote:The British team has been told by the FIA that the diffuser it is using this weekend in Bahrain may not be fitted to the MP4-25 in Melbourne in two weeks.
I'm confused. They can run a diffuser that is illegal? Or it is legal at this race, but not legal at the next one?
It's not clearly illegal, but i guess it's the "spirit of the rules". This hole is analogous to ferrari's gills. Both are a single hole for a specific purpose like exhaust or starter, but also serves a secondary purpose such as letting cooling air through in the form of gills or letting air through as a diffuser aid.3.12.7 No bodywork which is visible from beneath the car and which lies between the rear wheel centre line and a point 350mm rearward of it may be more than 175mm above the reference plane. Any intersection of the surfaces in this area with a lateral or longitudinal vertical plane should form one continuous line which is visible from beneath the car. A single break in the surface is permitted solely to allow the minimum required access for the device referred to in Article 5.15.
It was a lot more than that.ringo wrote:I see no problems after Q3, the main obstacle was a bump in turn 6.
Hmmmmmm. If they had KERS, which is what ultimately saved them last year, and they could use it off the line then that might be somewhat plausible, but that just seems like straw clutching really. They're not going to get that this year. In addition, their lack of speed and the tyre degredation is such that they're unlikely to keep cars that are the thick-end of a second faster than them behind for very long should they somehow miraculously find themselves at the front.What is also good is that the car is in the second row. Hamilton is not the guy to line up behind guys in front of him. That Mclaren will be jumping into P1 come tomorrow and will take control of the race from their. losing time in sector 2 wont even be a problem, as long as they have the top speed on the straights, he wont be passed by any cars making time in sector 2.
