Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[myurr]

I still think it's illegal because they are using a moving fluid to affect the aerodynamics unnaturally. with any car the aerodynamic parts are fixed with the only air moving through the chassis used for cooling.

I agree, and there are some aerodynamic regulations that cover that - but it's a question of precedence and what regulations give you loopholes. Everyone seems to have got fixated on the driver being a loophole.

Anyway, I await to see just how useful this system actually is over the course of the season and whether other teams feel it is worh the compromises in packaging and possibly balance that they might well have to make. I can't see Adrian Newey, or a Colin Chapman, liking those bulges and all of the ducting underneath that contributes nothing to cornering speed. I strongly get the impression that McLaren have rather obsessed over their new toy over the winter without questioning what the downsides might be and to the detriment of other things.

Then why did Christian Horner say they were going to have to copy it, and why are Red Bull rumored to be testing it already in the wind tunnel?

[kalinka]

They were actually quoted saying that they had chosen too low a downforce setting for the weekend - so it was a preparation problem that led to a bad setup of the car rather than an inherent problem. This showed up more in qualifying than in the race.

Ok, thanks myurr. That means that they are designing some components, like front and rear wing especially fog one race, and they can't change the downforce radically trough free practice sessions?
I can imagine though that the rear wing design doesn't allow them much variation, since it seems like the angle of it it's almost fixed. It can be a disadvantage truogh the season...

[RacingManiac]

They were actually quoted saying that they had chosen too low a downforce setting for the weekend - so it was a preparation problem that led to a bad setup of the car rather than an inherent problem. This showed up more in qualifying than in the race.

Ok, thanks myurr. That means that they are designing some components, like front and rear wing especially fog one race, and they can't change the downforce radically trough free practice sessions?
I can imagine though that the rear wing design doesn't allow them much variation, since it seems like the angle of it it's almost fixed. It can be a disadvantage truogh the season...

It's rather normal for a while now for the team to have variants of wings rather than adjustable ones....their simulation gives them a window and they tune the aero balance with front wing and rake/ride height. This is probably more prevalent now with sharkfin....

[Hangaku]

I still think it's illegal because they are using a moving fluid to affect the aerodynamics unnaturally. with any car the aerodynamic parts are fixed with the only air moving through the chassis used for cooling.

I agree, and there are some aerodynamic regulations that cover that - but it's a question of precedence and what regulations give you loopholes. Everyone seems to have got fixated on the driver being a loophole.

Anyway, I await to see just how useful this system actually is over the course of the season and whether other teams feel it is worh the compromises in packaging and possibly balance that they might well have to make. I can't see Adrian Newey, or a Colin Chapman, liking those bulges and all of the ducting underneath that contributes nothing to cornering speed. I strongly get the impression that McLaren have rather obsessed over their new toy over the winter without questioning what the downsides might be and to the detriment of other things.

Then why did Christian Horner say they were going to have to copy it, and why are Red Bull rumored to be testing it already in the wind tunnel?

Why? Because segedunum is a hardcore Ferrari fan, and he posts anything whether it's based on fact or not, in an attempt to bait the McLaren fans.

[wesley123]

I still think it's illegal because they are using a moving fluid to affect the aerodynamics unnaturally. with any car the aerodynamic parts are fixed with the only air moving through the chassis used for cooling.

I agree, and there are some aerodynamic regulations that cover that - but it's a question of precedence and what regulations give you loopholes. Everyone seems to have got fixated on the driver being a loophole.

Anyway, I await to see just how useful this system actually is over the course of the season and whether other teams feel it is worh the compromises in packaging and possibly balance that they might well have to make. I can't see Adrian Newey, or a Colin Chapman, liking those bulges and all of the ducting underneath that contributes nothing to cornering speed. I strongly get the impression that McLaren have rather obsessed over their new toy over the winter without questioning what the downsides might be and to the detriment of other things.

Like straight line speed doesnt care

Really, if you can gain 6km/h in straight line speed with that or even more you could add alot more downforce to the car, thus it increases downforce indirectly.

[autogyro]

Depends on how much you have to pitch the chassis and compromise ride height to get a balance.

[Just_a_fan]

I suspect others have not challenged because they feel that it is not providing McLaren with any clear benefit.

I think this is the key. If McLaren were 1 (or even 0.5) seconds ahead in Bahrain then it would have been protested.

If they end up the quickest in Oz will someone protest and, if so, will it be too late to do so: "we only protested once we saw they were too quick" would make the protesting team look very childish. Looking only "ok" on pace in Bahrain may just save McLaren which would be slightly ironic really.

I wonder if McLaren will bring the top deck extension piece to Oz. That thing looks like it must be illegal because it's so big but none of the teams seems to have been worried by it in testing etc.

[segedunum]

Why? Because segedunum is a hardcore Ferrari fan....

I was a hardcore Red Bull fan yesterday, and whilst that was amusing I'd curb it otherwise you will incur Ciro's wrath..............

[segedunum]

Then why did Christian Horner say they were going to have to copy it, and why are Red Bull rumored to be testing it already in the wind tunnel?

Because if it provides the straight line speed advantage that it is suppoed to then everyone will have to at least evaluate something like it, but like I said, it will all depend on what happens when the team evaluate it and ask themselves whether there are any downsides. Is it going to compromise the downforce and balance that they already have?

That's what I will find interesting about whether anyone else adopts it.

[Richard]

They were actually quoted saying that they had chosen too low a downforce setting for the weekend - so it was a preparation problem that led to a bad setup of the car rather than an inherent problem. This showed up more in qualifying than in the race.

Ok, thanks myurr. That means that they are designing some components, like front and rear wing especially fog one race, and they can't change the downforce radically trough free practice sessions?
I can imagine though that the rear wing design doesn't allow them much variation, since it seems like the angle of it it's almost fixed. It can be a disadvantage truogh the season...

Yes, they can adjust the set up during practice. They chose to go with a harder set up to maximise straight line speed, but evidence from other teams shows that a softer set up to get more corner speed, especially in Sector 2 and the bump on turn 6. Whitmarsh stated that is what happened on the BBC post race forum, he also said he was “shocked” and it was a “mistake”. He gives a very candid post race interview.

I was left wondering why they didn’t see that set ups at the softer end of the scale gave them better times in the practice sessions?

[Hangaku]

I was left wondering why they didn’t see that set ups at the softer end of the scale gave them better times in the practice sessions?

I think everyone was caught out with the tires in Bahrain - teams (certainly McLaren) were expecting both the options and the primes to go off really quickly, and they didn't. I wonder if this played a part in their setup decision, which ultimately turned out to be quite incorrect.

This could perhaps be evidenced by how surprised the drivers and Whitmarsh were (in the BBC Red Button interviews) about how the tires didn't fall away so quickly. I distinctly recall Button claiming that he had a decent amount of rubber left at his first pit-stop.

I'm not convinced that the McLaren is so far off the pace of the Ferrari and RedBull. Moreover, I think that the difference was exaggerated by the poor setup.

[bonjon1979]

I still think it's illegal because they are using a moving fluid to affect the aerodynamics unnaturally. with any car the aerodynamic parts are fixed with the only air moving through the chassis used for cooling.

I agree, and there are some aerodynamic regulations that cover that - but it's a question of precedence and what regulations give you loopholes. Everyone seems to have got fixated on the driver being a loophole.

Anyway, I await to see just how useful this system actually is over the course of the season and whether other teams feel it is worh the compromises in packaging and possibly balance that they might well have to make. I can't see Adrian Newey, or a Colin Chapman, liking those bulges and all of the ducting underneath that contributes nothing to cornering speed. I strongly get the impression that McLaren have rather obsessed over their new toy over the winter without questioning what the downsides might be and to the detriment of other things.

Like straight line speed doesnt care

Really, if you can gain 6km/h in straight line speed with that or even more you could add alot more downforce to the car, thus it increases downforce indirectly.

Watching the BBC forum did anyone else notice how much the redbull fin was flexing on the rear view? I don't know what effect that would have but it was oscillating the rear wing considerably. The fin that Mclaren has is a lot thicker so will automatically have far greater rigidity. Can anyone identify possible pros and cons of a shark fin that flexes in this way?

[wesley123]

think of what that will do, creating vortices etc. thus it will possibly stall the rear wing,

[Shaddock]

Why? Because segedunum is a hardcore Ferrari fan....

I was a hardcore Red Bull fan yesterday, and whilst that was amusing I'd curb it otherwise you will incur Ciro's wrath..............

Looking at that table must make you cry into your into rather flat sugary drink then

[segedunum]

Like straight line speed doesnt care

You don't spend all winter testing something new and cool that doesn't contribute much to the lap time at the majority of circuits. Cornering speed and downforce is what you really need and McLaren are certainly lacking that.

Really, if you can gain 6km/h in straight line speed with that or even more you could add alot more downforce to the car, thus it increases downforce indirectly.

I'm afraid it's not that simple as it's all compromises and tradeoffs. Besides, if as has been claimed, McLaren bizarrely got their downforce/drag ratios screwed up in qualifying (surely it should have been obvious?), and then for the race, then this system doesn't seem to be providing much in the way of a straight line speed advantage versus everyone else at all.........

You can't blame a difference of over around a second in qualifying in one sector purely on set up problems. The race turned out to be much nicer for them as they could effectively get some free lap time on the straights without chewing up their tyres with the advantage they had, but it's a serious stretch to try and replicate that on other circuits. There is something definitely not right..........