Traction control sensors

[manchild]

Wonder what TC system must be thinking when both rear wheels are in the air… something like - “oh my god, I’m not programmed for this”

[Principessa]

Watch Fernando go

[RH1300S]

Wonder what TC system must be thinking when both rear wheels are in the air… something like - “oh my god, I’m not programmed for this”

Interesting observation trust you to think of that! - does anyone know what the TC senses? It must be some sort of wheel rotation speed versus car speed, but does it use air-speed or compare front/rear wheels?

[Guest]

The TC system probably uses a combination of several kinds of sensors
in order to get the optimum traction for any given part of the track.

/ Fx

[terrorist22]

I remember Sauber a few years ago said there were over 30 parameters just for launch control, so I'm sure there will be a similar number for TC. I'm thinkng that there are sensors just to check if there is sufficient normal force (grip) to play with and that there are engine cuts in case anything like that happens.

For anybody's information I'm not a real terrorist or anything; my old username was West and for some reason I tried changing the email addy and everything messed up. This is just my BF2 name

[ackzsel]

I'd say TC just measures the rotation speed of the front and rear wheels and cuts the ignition as soon as the rear wheels are spinning at a "hundred-and-something" percent of the front wheels.

But please DO correct me if I am wrong, cuz I'm quite curious as well...

[Alexis]

It has to be something like that, but why do they need 30 parameters for just measuring wheel speeds? Maybe the system has changed quite a lot by developping it better... But still the TC is not fully automatic, the driver has a button on the stearing wheel to change the TC settings (sensitivity i think).

I'm wondering how LC works. At the start the front wheel speed is 0. Maybe they program some values in the software of the LC depending on what track they are racing at. When the pilot releases the buttons the softwares does something like this I think: After 0.01 sec -> wheel speed 0.2 rpm, after 0.02 sec ->wheel speed 0.5rpm after 0.03 sec ->wheel speed 0.9rpm.........
The values can be changed from track to track depending on the ammount of grip the surface has.

This is just a guess does anyone know how this really works?

[Guest]

Well, whatever I mentioned was for launch control. That could take into account weather and track temperatures, suspension and weight distribution, etc. Maybe 30 is too big, but there was more than I thought there would be.

[Guest]

What I can understand from reading interviews and articles on the subject is that the TC is higly advanced and very complex. The TC is integrated with the the ECU and the diff and probably several other systems, so the number of sensors and parameters of the TC is probably very high.

Of course you can have a TC that only needs to know the difference in speed between the front and rearwheels but it wont be a good one.

/ Fx

[Steven]

First off indeed the wheel rotation is measured and acted upon them. Therefore, when one wheel is in the air it goes spinning while the other runs further at reasonable speeds. I wonder if it is possible and allowed to slow down the spinning wheel while putting more power into the wheel that is still on the ground... anyone?

For the flying car with all wheels in the air, I think an easy solution would be to use an accelerometer that senses accelleration and decelleration of the car itself. Now if the wheels apparently accellerate more then from what is read on the accelerometer, it must cut power.
However one issue I have with this is the actual speed of an accelerometer? Maybe these things are too slow for TC and could it be better to just see if rear wheels are speeding up faster than the front wheels.

[DaveKillens]

Wow, all four wheels in the air, amazing.
They may also incorporate radar or laser sensors mounted in the bottom of the car. They could measure bodyheight, and even sideslip (doppler). Put those puppies on, and you have instant readings of each corner's ride height, and even if airborne. If you also measure wheel travel relative to body, factor in body height above ground, then you can get pretty good numbers on wheel loadings.
And if a doppler radar sensor measuring forward velocity was incorporated with a laser accelerometer and rear wheel RPM, you would know if wheel spin is going on.

[manchild]

It was photographed at that last chicane at Magny-Cours, it is a shame that whole car didn't fit in frame - it would be superb wallpaper

[DaveKillens]

It figures it would be that chicane, probably the most unforgiving and voilent chicane I can think of. I hope they don't modify and tame it, a difficult section like that makes for an interesting race. But four wheels, wow.. wow.
I don't know if the car traction control is programmed to deal with such an antic, it's not common, and as well, the whole car gets a terrible beating. All I can think of is my dirt bike lessons, where you just crank up the throttle before landing, and pre-load the drivetrain.
I don't know if the TC control is pre-programmed or a loop that measures parameters, and re-calculates throttle and clutch. In fact, I wonder how the clutch is released, by increments, or on a fixed rate. I guess that is one of the many secrets the factory engineers keep exclusive.
Has anyone personally witnessed (and heard) a launch, do the RPM's stay constant, climb, or do something else?

[manchild]

This is the moment before the liftoff...



... and this is the landing



3 pics... almost enough for a movie clip

[f1.redbaron]

Wonder what TC system must be thinking when both rear wheels are in the air… something like - “oh my god, I’m not programmed for this”

Forget about that...what was TC on Ralf's Williams thinking in Australia (?) in 2002? Something like, "damn it, Frank, you have to talk to Ralf. I cannot work under these conditions"