Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[Richard]

Typical though really. Arse-wipe newspapers always love to do English drivers and teams down.

I call pot and kettle.

Would you care to elaborate a little on what you mean by that?

I thought this was off topic and you were going to stop RIGHT NOW ???

[horse]

"It is a circuit that will suit the downforce level of our car more," said Button during the launch of the new McLaren MP4-12C road car in Woking on Thursday.

"The layout of Bahrain was changed very late and that didn't suit us too much. I am really looking forward to Melbourne. It is circuit that has treated me well in the past and one that I really enjoy."

Button: McLaren will be stronger in Oz

The apparent lack of downforce for McLaren at Bahrain has been very interesting for me.

Could it be that because of the fancy rear wing configuration, the team have no flexibility to alter the downforce generated by it? Thus, because of the late change of layout, they were fixed into a downforce level that they couldn't change but was wrong for the circuit.

Do you guys think the rear wing can be adjusted without changing the whole lot (including the engine cover)?

[Ganxxta]

I don't think that McLaren has a "fixed" rearwing, think about rain etc. you have to be able to adjust your settings directly and not to wait for a wing from woking Also CFD is maybe reliable now, but you can't predict everything by 100%, you need the ability to adopt to track conditions.

[RacingManiac]

I don't think they can adjust the rear wing, they have to change the whole thing from one to another. This I think has been the trend for sometimes now in F1....

[segedunum]

Typical though really. Arse-wipe newspapers always love to do English drivers and teams down.

I call pot and kettle.

You could, but you'd be wrong - and off-topic - again. I explained my criticisms of McLaren. I don't think the Daily Mirror have somehow, or even vaguely understood what they've written.

[vinuneuro]

Mclaren uses Koni Intelligent dampers.

"This hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability but will adopt adn optimum setting for handling and feel of the car in harsh conditions, such as when the car is travelling over kerbs"

""Koni's FSD is intelligent damping" said Johnathon Neale "FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maxiumum commitment"" - Race Tech magazine

Food for thought and discussion.

Curiously considering the much announced partnership with Koni and its FSD technology. McLaren in fact use multimatic dampers on the race car!

Are you sure about this? You mean they're using Dynamic Suspension dampers, but lying about using Koni for sponsorship sake? That seems a little bit far fetched, but this is F1.

[vinuneuro]

Mclaren uses Koni Intelligent dampers.

"This hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability but will adopt adn optimum setting for handling and feel of the car in harsh conditions, such as when the car is travelling over kerbs"

""Koni's FSD is intelligent damping" said Johnathon Neale "FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maxiumum commitment"" - Race Tech magazine

Food for thought and discussion.

You are refering to what is known in the industry as "Platform dampers".
Ferrari had these on their cars for years already.

Basically what you have a damper with a pressure spike sensor (piezo electric) fitted within the damping circuit. when the car hits a kurb the pressure sensor picksup the spike and adjusts the damping fluid viscosity or opens a secondary valve in the sompression piston to allow a faster and higher flow rate.

if they employ a fluid viscosity delta system then they are using a special hydraulic oil with an additive than contains a metallic ligand. When an electric current is removed the Viscosity Improver additive disassociates from the other moelcules with a similar ligand (the electric current keeps them aligned to increase the viscosity) and the fluid becomes less viscous nearly instantly.

Audi employs such a system on their road cars and in the R10TDi and R15TDI Le Mans Prototypes

I find this unlikely because this would be considered active dampers.

[mx_tifoso]

Mclaren uses Koni Intelligent dampers.

"This hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability but will adopt adn optimum setting for handling and feel of the car in harsh conditions, such as when the car is travelling over kerbs"

""Koni's FSD is intelligent damping" said Johnathon Neale "FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maxiumum commitment"" - Race Tech magazine

Food for thought and discussion.

You are refering to what is known in the industry as "Platform dampers".
Ferrari had these on their cars for years already.

Basically what you have a damper with a pressure spike sensor (piezo electric) fitted within the damping circuit. when the car hits a kurb the pressure sensor picksup the spike and adjusts the damping fluid viscosity or opens a secondary valve in the sompression piston to allow a faster and higher flow rate.

if they employ a fluid viscosity delta system then they are using a special hydraulic oil with an additive than contains a metallic ligand. When an electric current is removed the Viscosity Improver additive disassociates from the other moelcules with a similar ligand (the electric current keeps them aligned to increase the viscosity) and the fluid becomes less viscous nearly instantly.

Audi employs such a system on their road cars and in the R10TDi and R15TDI Le Mans Prototypes

Doesn't that go under the electromagnetic damper umbrella?

[Raptor22]

Mclaren uses Koni Intelligent dampers.

"This hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability but will adopt adn optimum setting for handling and feel of the car in harsh conditions, such as when the car is travelling over kerbs"

""Koni's FSD is intelligent damping" said Johnathon Neale "FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maxiumum commitment"" - Race Tech magazine

Food for thought and discussion.

You are refering to what is known in the industry as "Platform dampers".
Ferrari had these on their cars for years already.

Basically what you have a damper with a pressure spike sensor (piezo electric) fitted within the damping circuit. when the car hits a kurb the pressure sensor picksup the spike and adjusts the damping fluid viscosity or opens a secondary valve in the sompression piston to allow a faster and higher flow rate.

if they employ a fluid viscosity delta system then they are using a special hydraulic oil with an additive than contains a metallic ligand. When an electric current is removed the Viscosity Improver additive disassociates from the other moelcules with a similar ligand (the electric current keeps them aligned to increase the viscosity) and the fluid becomes less viscous nearly instantly.

Audi employs such a system on their road cars and in the R10TDi and R15TDI Le Mans Prototypes

I find this unlikely because this would be considered active dampers.

They are not actve dampers because the feedback loop is reactive, not proactive like in active suspension where forward looking sensors measure the terrain and adjust the dampers head of the event.
These are platform dampers and they are reactive.

[PlatinumZealot]

The valves in the shocks just react to what the shock is doing. Just raw mechanics nothing electronic or anything like what Raptor is saying.

[autogyro]

It is the hard springs that McLaren have to use to maintain ride height that I believe is their main problem.

[Shaddock]

Mclaren uses Koni Intelligent dampers.

"This hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability but will adopt adn optimum setting for handling and feel of the car in harsh conditions, such as when the car is travelling over kerbs"

""Koni's FSD is intelligent damping" said Johnathon Neale "FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maxiumum commitment"" - Race Tech magazine

Food for thought and discussion.

Curiously considering the much announced partnership with Koni and its FSD technology. McLaren in fact use multimatic dampers on the race car!

Are you sure about this? You mean they're using Dynamic Suspension dampers, but lying about using Koni for sponsorship sake? That seems a little bit far fetched, but this is F1.

It happens in golf all the time. The golfer wear's branded clothing and bag from one manufacturer, but uses clubs from another.

[RacingManiac]

Raptor is describing MR damper(in the 3rd paragraph), which actually uses no valve(the fluid is the valving mechanism). But I don't think you are actually allowed to use that anywhere racing since it is still "controlled". In road car its considered to be adaptive or reactive. But still controlled and in all cases is coupled to the actual dynamic of the vehicle, not just the single wheel motion. The same technology thats first used on Cadillac, then adopted by Ferrari(599, 458..etc), Audi and a bunch of others. Road car technology is held by Delphi while the actual patent holder is Lord(they also make these for trucks, seat damper and building dampers).

Koni FSD is not actually controlled in any way, they have a tuned volume in the damping circuit that gets used to actuate a secondary valving that opens and close based on if that volume is used or not. The frequency is dependent on how big that volume is(which determines a "fill-time"). There are no input or control. But obviously it needs to be tuned.

[horse]

Sorry, I'm talking at a tangent to the rest of the thread. Never mind.

I don't think they can adjust the rear wing, they have to change the whole thing from one to another. This I think has been the trend for sometimes now in F1....

Do you think McLaren simply brought the wrong package to Bahrain then or do they not have enough time to react to the change of track layout in order to manufacture a high downforce wing?

[autogyro]

Sorry, I'm talking at a tangent to the rest of the thread. Never mind.

I don't think they can adjust the rear wing, they have to change the whole thing from one to another. This I think has been the trend for sometimes now in F1....

Do you think McLaren simply brought the wrong package to Bahrain then or do they not have enough time to react to the change of track layout in order to manufacture a high downforce wing?

I think they spend to much time and resources on the rear wing slot and not enough on finding the right compromise between spring rate and ride height control.