Where did RBR go wrong with reliability?

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Just wondering here. The RB6 was much more of a developmental step from the RB5, rather than a rethink. The RB5 by the end of last year, was quite reliable. Shouldn't the reliability (or at least SOME of it) have carried over? Where do you think they went wrong? Why is it that Vettel is getting a rebirth of the MP4-20? (Raikkonen's 2005 McLaren - he would just pound in fast laps, but there wasn't much of a car left at the end).

I've read things such as it was Geoff Willis's departure that was bad for the team, but I'm sure it can't be just singled down to that one single factor. What are your opinions?

[avatar]

2 Apparent front break failures this weekend for Vettel...
...perhaps a bit too ambitious with the brake layout??

Optimum brake calliper position on RB6

Not sure about the spark-plug fail in the last race. May just be a freak occurrence, so unless it recurs, I wouldn't read too much into it in terms of car design, but could have been a mistake/damage in installation or a rare manufacturing fault on the spark-plug.

[Raftaar]

We have just had two races, and it really is too early to access reliablity of a car overall.
But that said, niggles or reliability issues, whatever they are, they are really a spot of concern for RBR, at the moment at least. I mean, it could have been 2 out of 2 to them by now, but instead they don't even have a podium finish to their name.

One would really feel for Vettel, on both occasions, he has been spot-on with his performance, pole position and race lead with a comfertable margin to 2nd place and needless to mention, great pace, but still nothing to show for it. Very unfortunate.

But the end result, one thing is for sure, and is for everyone to see, the RB6, with Vettle in it, really is the pacesetter at the moment.

[Sean H]

RBR went wrong not picking up Kimi to replace the excuse maker Webber.

[roost89]

it didn't.

Both parts that failed came from companies outside RBR (they were bought in) so therefore are beyond the control of Red Bull. Only one car broke on both accounts.
It's luck more than anything.

[ESPImperium]

Im not sure wether it was when vettel or Webber cam in, but i think it was when Vettel came in for his stop, i need to look at the race replay when i download it.

I think that there were sparks that came off the RB6s front LHS wheel hub when the new tyre went on. I think it was when Vettels stop was on. Couold this have been the problem, where the wheel vibrated like hell from there after.

But the Red Bull brake system is really flawed i feel, you just cant get enough air into the calipers from where they are situated. Newey seems to be infatuated with having the lowest CoG coefficient of all the teams.

[raymondu999]

We have just had two races, and it really is too early to access reliablity of a car overall.
But that said, niggles or reliability issues, whatever they are, they are really a spot of concern for RBR, at the moment at least. I mean, it could have been 2 out of 2 to them by now, but instead they don't even have a podium finish to their name.

One would really feel for Vettel, on both occasions, he has been spot-on with his performance, pole position and race lead with a comfertable margin to 2nd place and needless to mention, great pace, but still nothing to show for it. Very unfortunate.

But the end result, one thing is for sure, and is for everyone to see, the RB6, with Vettle in it, really is the pacesetter at the moment.

I think that if this continues too, even if they don't see Vettel take the final big trophy at the end, they will see Vettel as the champion "in the spirit of the sport" :p

[feynman]

I agree it's still early, but it's not about luck.

Yes, they buy in brakes, but so do all the other teams, and I'm sure I recall more than a coupla times per year, a Red Bull front disc exploding. Just cos you buy them in doesn't mean you can abuse them.

The Renaults in the Renault seemed competently reliable last year, but in the Newey trademark mobile engine cooker, they got battered into submission. Just cos you buy them in, you still need to cool them. It was Newey's name above the door when Kimi and Merc couldn't finish a race ... I wonder if "car-breaker" Vettel will need to consider a move to Ferrari in order to win his championship.

[Giblet]

Im not sure wether it was when vettel or Webber cam in, but i think it was when Vettel came in for his stop, i need to look at the race replay when i download it.

I think that there were sparks that came off the RB6s front LHS wheel hub when the new tyre went on. I think it was when Vettels stop was on. Couold this have been the problem, where the wheel vibrated like hell from there after.

But the Red Bull brake system is really flawed i feel, you just cant get enough air into the calipers from where they are situated. Newey seems to be infatuated with having the lowest CoG coefficient of all the teams.

I just checked, and it didn't show Vettel's stop, just him leaving, so it must have been Webber. Unless it showed it in replay, which I couldn't find.

[Ray]

Im not sure wether it was when vettel or Webber came in, but i think it was when Vettel came in for his stop, i need to look at the race replay when i download it.

I think that there were sparks that came off the RB6s front LHS wheel hub when the new tyre went on. I think it was when Vettels stop was on. Could this have been the problem, where the wheel vibrated like hell from there after.

But the Red Bull brake system is really flawed i feel, you just cant get enough air into the calipers from where they are situated. Newey seems to be infatuated with having the lowest CoG coefficient of all the teams.

That was definitely Webbos car, it was the right front wheel, and I distinctly remember sitting straight up and remarking to an empty room that there were sparks coming from that wheel when they put it on and wondering for the remainder of the race if that would cause any kind of failure later on. I bet that wheel nut got cross threaded and they had a devils own time getting it back off.

[Ciro Pabón]

Guys, I moved this thread from the F1 Cars forum to the General Chat one.

Please, do not start threads in the F1 Cars forum that are not related to... well, F1 Cars.

[raymondu999]

In a sense it is though, isn't it? Related to the RB6? Apologies if I have the wrong idea.

I find it depressing that they now have less reliability (in a sense) than HRT or Lotus.

[Callum]

If you watch Vettel's Pole lap from Qually:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2YGbz7e ... re=related

At 1.14 there is a flash of sparks from the front left rim (brakes?)

[raymondu999]

Here is the shot. Scarey.

[johnny99]

Looks like titainium skid plates on the wing endplates, there nothing else there as far as I know, to touch the ground.

John