Where did RBR go wrong with reliability?

[roost89]

just a thought but if it's an RBR problem. How come it doesn't affect the Toro Rosso cars?

Admittedly the TR is built at a different location, using different parts etc. But it was designed (initially) by the same man.


I'm finding it hard to believe it's an RBR problem. It seems to me it's more of a Seb Vettel problem.
3/4 cars show no problem in 2 races.
The one common factor I see is Seb Vettels' car.

Mark Webber hasn't had a failure during the races, maybe he has during practice (but many teams do)
Toro Rosso, they seem ok.

[BreezyRacer]

Looks like titainium skid plates on the wing endplates, there nothing else there as far as I know, to touch the ground.

John

I think that's a good call Johnny. You can see the sparks are ahead of the wheel assy by the sparks on the outside of the front wheel.

However, you have admit that's a lot of sparking at the back of the wheel .. it could be a skid plate on the wing AND some contact inside the wheel from wheel flex. There are stories surfacing that it was a wheel/hub problem, not brakes.

[johnny99]

I noticed sparks from Schumacher's car, lower tip of endplate, when he was entering the pitlane for a new wing. At the speed there travelling, it may look like the sparks were coming from further back. I would not be surprised if Red Bull, or any other F1 team, were not forth coming with information. I don't think it was a brake disc, as a brake disc failure is fairly spectacular.

John

[Edis]

I noticed sparks from Schumacher's car, lower tip of endplate, when he was entering the pitlane for a new wing. At the speed there travelling, it may look like the sparks were coming from further back. I would not be surprised if Red Bull, or any other F1 team, were not forth coming with information. I don't think it was a brake disc, as a brake disc failure is fairly spectacular.

John

Brake discs tend to go out with a black smoke cloud coming out of the wheel.

[The FOZ]

RBR went wrong not picking up Kimi to replace the excuse maker Webber.

Cool. Is this Kimi you speak of some sort of engineer/mechanic? He would somehow have been able to prevent Seb's engine failure in Bahrain? Or his brake failure in Australia?

Next time, please read the actual first post, rather than responding to the title in the most snide manner possible.

Back on topic, I think Vettel is just a bit too rough on the equipment. Compared to Weber, he's had far more races end due to equipment failure.

[Giblet]

Seb complained about a vibration before the brake failed.

A failed brake does not have to equal exploding discs. The calipers can also fail.

He is starting to see the same curse that Kimi had. Having a blistering fast car that falls apart.

[hasalard]

I would be surprised if RBR engineers didn't inspect the car and analyze the data after the qualifying about the possible effects of the sparks flashed from the Vettel's car wheel.

Many possible things can be said about RBR's reability problems but i believe that the main one is a collaboration problem with suppliers.Newey's designs designs are usually very aggressive and at the limits.In this terms, it is easy to claim that such a philosophy requires effective quality control procedures and a very close information exchange between the team and it's suppliers.Naturally, in today's F1 almost every team try to establish effective links with suppliers and RBR isn't an exception but it's a very long and hard process to set high quality control standarts and reach a new degree in collaboration.To further support my opinion i recommend Francesca Mariotti's article "Learning to Share Knowledge in the Italian Motorsport Industry" as it focuses on how Ferrari's relations with suppliers developed over the years in order to find more performance and reability.

One last note, Newey desingned cars are clearly more vulnerable in the hands of some drivers especially in super-quick ones.I didn't compare the driving styles of Kimi and Seb but it is clear that both of them have the ability to push the car closer to it's limits other than most of their teammates.And when their demanding approaches clash with the desing and production related issues the inevitable result, inreability occurs.

[Pup]

RBR went wrong not picking up Kimi to replace the excuse maker Webber.

Cool. Is this Kimi you speak of some sort of engineer/mechanic? He would somehow have been able to prevent Seb's engine failure in Bahrain? Or his brake failure in Australia?

Nah, but he would have hogged all the bad luck for himself.

[Motornic]

They've had brake failures years back to Monza and Singapore. Newey cars in the last ten years have been fast as sin and just as fallible.

[pgj]

The shower seems to be coming up with the airflow.

It is unfortunate that RBR has so many reliability problems. Fortunately, they seem to be unconnected, more chance than anything else. It is also unfortunate that both failures have been on Seb's car. I am not sure that there is too much to worry about there. I hope there are no more, RBR is my tip for the WCC.

[segedunum]

Cool. Is this Kimi you speak of some sort of engineer/mechanic? He would somehow have been able to prevent Seb's engine failure in Bahrain? Or his brake failure in Australia?

No, but there are drivers out there that would likely have collected at least one race win after Vettel's mishaps where Webber simply hasn't because of his mistakes - poor qualifying in Bahrain and getting himself completely bogged down in Australia. We know the car is the fastest thing out there, and if one car is reliable enough to finish then it should be winning. That's the way Red Bull will look at it.

Back on topic, I think Vettel is just a bit too rough on the equipment. Compared to Weber, he's had far more races end due to equipment failure.

Webber is by far the more aggressive driver when it comes to kerb mounting, moving the car around in a corner and getting the thottle in. People always straw clutch when a car has a few reliability problems.

[Mysticf1]

Webber is by far the more aggressive driver when it comes to kerb mounting, moving the car around in a corner and getting the thottle in. People always straw clutch when a car has a few reliability problems.

What is that statement based on? Melbourne alone? There was countless times last season where Seb was Very aggressive and paid for it...he came so close to destroying his melb qualifying lap for that very reason this year, lost a race at the first corner from pole last year (sorry can't remember the specific race), slammed the wall in monaco.

i think sometimes the old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side" rings true, Webber has been criticized for not being aggressive enough, now hes too aggressive...generalistic statements aren't smart.

[RacingManiac]

Seb complained about a vibration before the brake failed.

A failed brake does not have to equal exploding discs. The calipers can also fail.

He is starting to see the same curse that Kimi had. Having a blistering fast car that falls apart.

Common thread: Adrian Newey car.....lol

If I recalled correctly Coulthard also had less problem when Kimi's car was falling apart...

[peterlittle]

Was it not Patrick Head that said Adrian is a wonderful designer and innovator but every so often you have to rein him in and get things on a even and sustainable level. Perhaps Red Bull are giving him carte blanche when he actually needs a little bit of control.

[manchild]

They just had one common technical problem with the car in two races so far. Engine isn't Newey's design. I can't see why are you jumping to conclusions. Bad luck happens.

2008 season, Ferrari

Race 1: Massa DNF, Kimi DNF

Ferrari won the WCC that year. Get my point?