I took this just for you White Blue

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
xpensive
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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The BRM H16 is not for discussion here, that was simply a couple of honest british engineers in Bourne placing two flat-8s on top of another.

The groundbolt here is whether those Bourne-gentlmen designed and built the BRM V16 kompressor on their own, did they?

I think not. The ball is yours, WB.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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WhiteBlue
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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xpensive wrote:The BRM H16 is not for discussion here, that was simply a couple of honest british engineers in Bourne placing two flat-8s on top of another.

The groundbolt here is whether those Bourne-gentlmen designed and built the BRM V16 kompressor on their own, did they?

I think not. The ball is yours, WB.
I have given my opinion on that. Neither the cylinder count not the V angle of the BRM fits with the Autounion E-type engine projects. I tend to believe they used another engine as a template for downscaling, possibly the Napier Sabre aero engine autogyro suggested.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Giblet
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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The topic was actually the Toronto Auto Show of Suckiness, where I took a pic of the Auto Union model.

But that's OK, anything that starts an interesting discussion is welcome.

True, there were no tanks at the show however, and very few Germans. I did help this rather 'intelligent' American figure out what a liter is. He said "Why are they showing the engine capacity in liters? I can't figure out how big that Ferrari engine is in CI".

I just said "A 5.0 liter mustang is a 302 right? You should be able to figure out what a 5,995 liter, or cc engine is"

It was a grating and annoying question, as if the Metric System is inferior or something. That is the kind of American that makes my skin crawl, and fortunately, that is the exception as most I meet are smart and regular people.

I really like this pic, it was the best I got basically. There was a cool SAE car from the UofT contingent as well. The fellow at the booth knew of this site when I dropped the name. I only knew it was an FSAE because of this site to, which made me seem smarter than I am.

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The Shelby exhibit was really good. A SLEW of GT-40's. Not seeing one in person then about 5 at once was fun, plus an 8 million dollar Shelby Daytona.

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Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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WhiteBlue wrote:
xpensive wrote:The BRM H16 is not for discussion here, that was simply a couple of honest british engineers in Bourne placing two flat-8s on top of another.

The groundbolt here is whether those Bourne-gentlmen designed and built the BRM V16 kompressor on their own, did they?

I think not. The ball is yours, WB.
I have given my opinion on that. Neither the cylinder count not the V angle of the BRM fits with the Autounion E-type engine projects. I tend to believe they used another engine as a template for downscaling, possibly the Napier Sabre aero engine autogyro suggested.
So this is where we finally find some common cround WB? "Es muss ein bischen ordnung sein!, nicht war?"

Theres simply no way in this universe that those bourne-bozos could have done it on their own. No way.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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WhiteBlue
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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xpensive wrote:Theres simply no way in this universe that those bourne-bozos could have done it on their own. No way.
I would never do a new design from scratch if I can take a short cut by up or downscaling existing and working design. Often you can combine existing modules into a new arrangement. I much rather invest my money into optimizing a scaled or re arranged design for my purpose. All development is iteration. If you start with something that is already debugged to a great extend you get to your finished product much faster and with higher cost efficiency. If you start from scratch you often cannot pin point the cause of problems. If you introduce gradual change and keep main aspects of a previous design it is so much easier to debug it.

Long story short: The bourne-bozos probably had a template to start with. It may have been the A,B or C-Type engine and they downscaled it plus squashed it to get to another V angle. It is all speculation.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

xpensive
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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WhiteBlue wrote:
xpensive wrote:Theres simply no way in this universe that those bourne-bozos could have done it on their own. No way.
I would never do a new design from scratch if I can take a short cut by up or downscaling existing and working design. Often you can combine existing modules into a new arrangement. I much rather invest my money into optimizing a scaled or re arranged design for my purpose. All development is iteration. If you start with something that is already debugged to a great extend you get to your finished product much faster and with higher cost efficiency. If you start from scratch you often cannot pin point the cause of problems. If you introduce gradual change and keep main aspects of a previous design it is so much easier to debug it.

Long story short: The bourne-bozos probably had a template to start with. It may have been the A,B or C-Type engine and they downscaled it plus squashed it to get to another V angle. It is all speculation.
This is getting serious WB, like american engineers meeting Werner von Braun, or Boeing people touching an ME262?

Christ WB, differnt universes.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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Ciro Pabón
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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I split some posts from this thread into a new one, named Armoured fight. Enjoy.
Ciro

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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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On behalf of all the members of F1T, I would like to xpress my sencerest aplogies for my recent postings here, made under the influence and very poorly considered.

Sorry, you all.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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jon-mullen
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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I had the pleasure of touring the BMW US Plant last week, and although we weren't allowed to take pictures of the new X3 (which is hot, btw), I did get a couple shots with you in mind, WB: (sorry it was just a sh***y camera phone)

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Loud idiot in red since 2010
United States Grand Prix Club, because there's more to racing than NASCAR

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WhiteBlue
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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Thx, that looks like a Brabham rear end from the 80ties or was that something from sports cars? What did the text say?
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

timbo
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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WhiteBlue wrote:Thx, that looks like a Brabham rear end from the 80ties or was that something from sports cars? What did the text say?
IMO it is definitely an F1 car. I can't imagine such radiator layout on 80s sportscar. But I don't know which model...
Is that intercooler on the left? If so it's HUGE!

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WhiteBlue
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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On the left side you have the turbo loader. This definitely a 1.5 L straight four cylinder turbo engine as BMW used in F1 with the associated radiators for open wheel or sports cars with side mounting. The left radiator seems to be for water and the right one for oil. From the general layout definitely not touring cars, which had front engines.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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jon-mullen
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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Yes, it's the rear end of the Brabham, you can't tell from this pic but the rear wing has Olivetti livery on it. Here's a clearer pic of the whole from gurneyflap.com.

The text was a run down of their F1 career, I don't recall it having too much to say about that particular engine. I think the livery makes it an '84 - '86?
Loud idiot in red since 2010
United States Grand Prix Club, because there's more to racing than NASCAR

Giblet
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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Imagine if a modern F1 team used a production block like this BMW did.

Great read about this particular engine in a few months old Racecar Engineering or Race Tech magazine. The quality of the article makes me think RCE.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

timbo
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Re: I took this just for you White Blue

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Giblet wrote:Great read about this particular engine in a few months old Racecar Engineering or Race Tech magazine. The quality of the article makes me think RCE.
Yeah, I remember that article. Amazing thing is that they purposely used blocks with mileage on them (at least 100,000 km!) so that the block would be stressed out.