Tracking of engine use - 2010

[Mr Alcatraz]

Ferrari usually pick only proven champs for their no one slot and occasionally try out high rated young guns for the number two. They have Massa who is the perfect number two as long as he wants to be there. He is good enough to lead himself if the number one driver fails like Kimi in 2008. He is also fair and supports the leading driver if he is good enough. Based on that I do not see Ferrari make changes to Massa. One can have a look at Alonso.



The betting community still rates Alonso higher than almost anybody.



In the relative car odds Red Bull are now the new standard with Ferrar going up to 1,16. McLaren improving to 1,67 and Mercedes slightly improved to 7,56 due to Rosberg's competitive showing. This enables us to rate drivers independent of the car.



In the car corrected driver odds Alonso always held a strong position this season and still holds strong. Vettel clearly has a very strong potential but it isn't proven yet by a championship. Rosberg came out of nowhere in the last races achieving better results than the Merc is currently capable off. But Rosberg is even more unproven than Vettel. He hasn't even fought a championship to runner up yet.

So realistically Ferrari can pick between Alonso and Hamilton if they had a vacancy for their top driver. Based on performance they have no reason today to drop Alonso. He is a very safe bet to deliver another championship to Ferrari if they give him a car that beats the competition. As it stands Ferrari isn't dominant and so they may loose both championships to Red Bull and Vettel. If they do it, it is not due to the drivers but to the cars. Remember both drivers have gone through three of eight engines already in the space of three of nineteen races.

Did I miss something? Bulk did not break his lump in the race!
Plus they still have the lumps they used for practice for this race. They may not be worth anything in races but they will be useful in FP. You won't see ferrari setting fast practice times in FP but they will have lumps for Sat, and race. Freds detonation this race was bad news, but racing the entire race with out a clutch probably shaded his judgement a little. You saw how beat the podium winners were.
Fettel looked like he just got done blowing chunks.
Britney looked like he was about to
Webber looked like he had been riden hard, and put away wet!
Fred's race was much more demanding than anyone else's.

[jddh1]

Did I miss something? Bulk did not break his lump in the race!

I think he did, the engine did go.
However, I am not too worried. He showed the could do the entire race with a broken clutch so the engine was under tremendous strain and nearly survived the hottest race of the season. (Is it?) That means the Ferrari engine is pretty good.
BUT, I think the Renault engine is the best since the end of last season. RBR did a good thing not to cut ties with them. Just an opinion though, no scientific facts to back it up.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Did I miss something? Bulk did not break his lump in the race!

I think he did, the engine did go.
However, I am not too worried. He showed the could do the entire race with a broken clutch so the engine was under tremendous strain and nearly survived the hottest race of the season. (Is it?) That means the Ferrari engine is pretty good.
BUT, I think the Renault engine is the best since the end of last season. RBR did a good thing not to cut ties with them. Just an opinion though, no scientific facts to back it up.

I can't find a link anywhere saying that Bulk had an engine failiar this weekend. Someone needs to provide a link to convince me!
I did find this:

it has emerged that Sauber and Alonso's engine problems on Sunday were not related. The Swiss team said the fault was actually caused by the car's pneumatic system, while Alonso's problem was a sudden engine failure.

"In this regard, we believe we have the situation with the engines under control," said Ferrari's Stefano Domenicali.

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/a ... /view.html

And this:
http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... MP=OTC-RSS

"We have seen that the advantage (of the system) is very, very big," said the Italian, referring to the straightline speed advantage enjoyed by McLaren's Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button.

"We will bring it to the races as soon as possible, once we are sure that it is 100 per cent," added Domenicali.

As for Massa's lump

LINK PLEASE!!!!!!

[jddh1]

I can't find a link anywhere saying that Bulk had an engine failiar this weekend. Someone needs to provide a link to convince me!

Can you read Italian? http://bit.ly/9Nm1GZ
If not just use google translation. It's in the second paragraph. Alonso says it was the engine.

[hollus]

Bulk is Massa's nickname, not Alonso's.
Alonso's engine broke, not Massa's.

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Does anyone have the current figures of who's used how many engines and roughly how much distance each engine has done? I remember somebody did it last year. I think

[Ganxxta]

Here is some data, well in german but you can try google transaltion if you need...
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/erge ... 3/76.shtml

There are numbers of changed engines and the KMs on current engines.

Interesting that Ferrari had already 3 changes and the engine of Alonso still blew up

[manchild]

People laughed at me when I wrote that engines have not been tested to push much heavier cars and to last as expected. Ferrari does not only have problem with consumption, but also problem with extra heavy car.

They've used 3 engines out of 8 for 3 races. There are 16 races to go, and they have 5 more engines per car before facing penalties.

Ok, I'm Renault fan, but judging from what we've seen so far, Ferrari will end season 4th or 5th in WCC. RB, Mclaren, Mercedes, Renault... even Force India might beat them.

Kubica has 7 points less than Alonso, while both of them have one race finished without points, with 2 engines and one gearbox on side of Kubica. Can't wait for mid-season to see Ferrari running engines on 2/3 power just to be able to make it to the end of the season.

And... it's not the bashing bias, no, what irritates me is the fact that despite so much resources and experience, they've built most unimaginative car ever. Like they had no brains, they've built car with biggest tank, enormous wheelbase, overall length.

They are going down bigtime, but no one sees it yet thanks to Vettel's problems with sparkplug and double win at first race. That was a gift, season will look completely different.

Renault has the most reliable engine so far when it matters top teams.


Pos. Driver Team Engine km

1 R. Kubica Renault Renault 1322 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

2 N. Hülkenberg Williams Cosworth 1211 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

3 R. Barrichello Williams Cosworth 1112 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

4 P. de la Rosa Sauber Ferrari 1104 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

5 K. Kobayashi Sauber Ferrari 1060 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

6 M. Webber Red Bull Renault 1055 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

7 V. Petrov Renault Renault 848 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

8 V. Liuzzi Force India Mercedes 840 Australien, Rennen

9 J. Alguersuari Toro Rosso Ferrari 801 Australien, Rennen

10 N. Rosberg Mercedes Mercedes 773 Australien, Rennen

11 H. Kovalainen Lotus Cosworth 768 Australien, Rennen

12 M. Schumacher Mercedes Mercedes 768 Australien, Rennen

13 F. Alonso Ferrari Ferrari 757 Australien, Rennen

14 B. Senna HRT Cosworth 726 Australien, 1. Freies Training

15 F. Massa Ferrari Ferrari 718 Australien, Rennen

16 J. Button McLaren Mercedes 684 Australien, Rennen

17 L. Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 684 Australien, Rennen

18 T. Glock Virgin Cosworth 654 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

19 S. Vettel Red Bull Renault 593 Australien, Rennen

20 L. di Grassi Virgin Cosworth 531 Australien, Rennen

21 S. Buemi Toro Rosso Ferrari 515 Australien, Rennen

22 A. Sutil Force India Mercedes 513 Australien, Rennen

23 K. Chandhok HRT Cosworth 471 Bahrain, 1. Freies Training

24 J. Trulli Lotus Cosworth 427 Australien, Rennen



Pos. Nr. Driver Team Engine Engines used

1 7 F. Massa Ferrari Ferrari 3

2 8 F. Alonso Ferrari Ferrari 3

3 1 J. Button McLaren Mercedes 2

4 2 L. Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 2

5 3 M. Schumacher Mercedes Mercedes 2

6 4 N. Rosberg Mercedes Mercedes 2

7 5 S. Vettel Red Bull Renault 2

8 14 A. Sutil Force India Mercedes 2

9 15 V. Liuzzi Force India Mercedes 2

10 16 S. Buemi Toro Rosso Ferrari 2

11 17 J. Alguersuari Toro Rosso Ferrari 2

12 18 J. Trulli Lotus Cosworth 2

13 19 H. Kovalainen Lotus Cosworth 2

14 21 B. Senna HRT Cosworth 2

15 25 L. di Grassi Virgin Cosworth 2

16 6 M. Webber Red Bull Renault 1

17 9 R. Barrichello Williams Cosworth 1

18 10 N. Hülkenberg Williams Cosworth 1

19 11 R. Kubica Renault Renault 1

20 12 V. Petrov Renault Renault 1

21 20 K. Chandhok HRT Cosworth 1

22 22 P. de la Rosa Sauber Ferrari 1

23 23 K. Kobayashi Sauber Ferrari 1

24 24 T. Glock Virgin Cosworth 1

[FLC]

manchild, you are being too harsh.

Yes, they have a problem, and they've addmited to it, but lets not forget a few things. First, that they cannot do much in that area, in light of the freeze on engine developement. Second, that two of the fisrt three races were very hot. And third, that the F10 is a very fast car and right up there with Red-Bull, McLaren and Mercedes, probably (still) ahead of the last two. If indeed you are right, and I believe you are, and they are running the car much heavier, than I think it's pretty safe to say that the resources and experience show well in all other departments.

Renault were'nt very reliable last year, and if Ferrari will keep losing engines at this rate, I guess they'll have a good excuse to apply for some serious changes - just like Renault...

[manchild]

It's not the engine I'm blaming. It's the car.

Team Engine used

Ferrari Ferrari 6

Torro Rosso Ferrari 4

Sauber Ferrari 2

BTW, speaking of hot races, they were the ones to reintroduce shark gills for additional cooling using loophole, while no other team had them.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Finally I've got the answer I'm looking for!
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/erge ... 3/76.shtml
Both Fred, and Bulk have used three new engines. Thank you Manchild!
It's a good thing they are leading both championships with the f-duct coming
possibly by China But more likely when they return to Europe.
When Fettel had his engine usage problems last year they were already way behind in points.

[mx_tifoso]

A few posts from 2011 Ferrari - Alonso, and? were moved over to this thread as they only dealt with the amount of engines used by Ferrari thus far.

[manchild]

Champ. standings vs. no. of engines used


1. Felipe Massa 39 - 3
2. Fernando Alonso 37 - 3
3. Sebastian Vettel 37 - 2
4. Jenson Button 35 - 2
5. Nico Rosberg 35 - 2
6. Lewis Hamilton 31 - 2
7. Robert Kubica 30 - 1
8. Mark Webber 24 - 1

[raymondu999]

Great numbers!! Where'd you get them, by the way? And also, couldn't Bulk and Fred use the engine that they abandoned after Bahrain quali again? They might've used 3 engines, but they might not have "used up" 3 engines.

[mx_tifoso]

Exactly Raymundo, only Alonso has completely eliminated an engine. The ones from Bahrain are still useable, but only for FP's.