McLaren - A picture of harmony

[segedunum]

About Sutil/Lewis, he was not complaining. He was informing the team about the FI. Good data for China's back stretch.

You think that if it gives you comfort. I think every man and his dog knows how decent the Force India is in a straight line by now. I'm sure McLaren learned something, but it wasn't anything about how the Force India might do on China's straights.

[ringo]

About Sutil/Lewis, he was not complaining. He was informing the team about the FI. Good data for China's back stretch.

You think that if it gives you comfort. I think every man and his dog knows how decent the Force India is in a straight line by now. I'm sure McLaren learned something, but it wasn't anything about how the Force India might do on China's straights.

That damn merc engine in the FI!! Imagine if they had an F duct?
It was very notable how out of reach the force india was on the straights and then how ordinary it was in the twisty parts.

[segedunum]

That damn merc engine in the FI!! Imagine if they had an F duct?
It was very notable how out of reach the force india was on the straights and then how ordinary it was in the twisty parts.

Unfortunately, complaining about it isn't going to help anyone.

[Mr Alcatraz]

That damn merc engine in the FI!! Imagine if they had an F duct?
It was very notable how out of reach the force india was on the straights and then how ordinary it was in the twisty parts.

Unfortunately, complaining about it isn't going to help anyone.

Like I posted in another thread FI simply marginalized the f duct by using a little less wing. By the euro races everyone will have an f-duct if they want one.
Granted In a race that does not have any chance of rain The FI and the Mecedes will have to be using the same rear wing downforce levels as I'm sure FI took a real gamble that the race would be dry.
Cheers!

[Mr Alcatraz]

That damn merc engine in the FI!! Imagine if they had an F duct?
It was very notable how out of reach the force india was on the straights and then how ordinary it was in the twisty parts.

Unfortunately, complaining about it isn't going to help anyone.

Like I posted in another thread FI simply marginalized the f duct by using a little less wing. By the euro races everyone will have an f-duct if they want one.
Granted In a race that does not have any chance of rain The FI and the Mecedes will have to be using the same rear wing downforce levels as I'm sure FI took a real gamble that the race would be dry.
Cheers!

Then there is this:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=362734

"We will bring it to the races as soon as possible, once we are sure that it is 100 per cent," added Domenicali.

[ringo]

Will Jenson ever find a balance with the car? Will he ever feel 100% ?

"I will be in the simulator on Tuesday, so hopefully we can sort some of the problems out," Button told The Star. "The great thing is our car is improving all the time, but I am still not 100 per cent happy with the balance of the car

I hope he finds what he is looking for, Mclaren cars seem to always be more difficult to drive and find a comfortable balance, where as the ferraris are easier (except the f60).

It's possible that the setup for Jenson simply wont yield a quicker lap time, or one that is within his 4 tenths deficit to the #2 driver. I am sure he is quicker on the setup he is not comfortable with, but it's a problem if he is not confident with it over the race distance.

4tenths a lap means he has to find speed somewhere. However it is harder to be that much quicker and maintain a smooth driving style. It's an uphill battle to be quicker than the quickest, but it looks like he is working on it. After all he was the one that took on the challenge.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Great insight Ringo!
I've followed Buttons entire career. With decent a car under him at BAR he was very fast. really extracted about 99.5% out of the car. That was all he needed to win with Brawn. I was thinking He'd be a little closer to "The Boss" with the new fuel regs. It's starting to look like he's not up to the task. It is however still early days. I'm giving everyone a little more lattitude due to these. Button may be smooth, but Lewis may also learn to be even easier on his tires.
If that's the case It will be game over.

[Hangaku]

This is shown in a news article recently (can't find it now) - while much of the team are taking a week off to relax before China, Jenson is back at McLaren HQ working on the simulator, and getting some practice in. He certainly doesn't seem to be 100% happy with the car at the minute.

[lebesset]

didn't I read somewhere than lewis is also going back for a day on the stimulator [ sic ]

but are we not forgetting the most important thing ?
when this car was being designed nobody knew who the other driver was going to be [ not even jenson ]
it would be hard for the design team to not bias towards the style that proved successful with lewis , and that isn't exactly the same as jenson , is it

I would guess that , despite any statements to the contrary , jenson expected that 2010 would be extremely tough , at least the for first half

to win the second race must have been beyond his wildest dreams

don't get me wrong , everybody who is honest with themself knows that frank williams is correct ....lewis is a once in 20 years man ; personally I would go further , he is going to be the equal of jimmy clark
but then most of you won't know how good that was

[Mr Alcatraz]

personally I would go further , he is going to be the equal of jimmy clark
but then most of you won't know how good that was

I remember!! and all the greats in between. I also remember it was a different era. That is a very difficult comparison. Most informed F1 enthusiasts are very well aware of JC accomplishments through reading and video. Just because I'm on the back side of fifty-five doesn't factor into my credibility. I don't know if you were just saying it as an aside or if it gives you a position above others. Hey I saw Jimi Hendricks, Janis Joplin, Bob Marley, Jim Morrison, and other dead or dying Rock Stars. It doesn't mean I appreciate them any more than anyone else that studies their music. (BTW it cost $3.50 to see Jimi live in 1969) In the following video the narrator brings up the point that Clark really didn't like banging wheels.
But more importantly it is the stark contrast that is suggested that a car with 210 bhp has little in common with today's F1 cars.

That has nothing to do with Jim Clark's ability
No one will ever match his or Fangio's statistics, not even Mike!
"The Boss" may be the best pilot in F1 right now,and then maybe not.
Four seasons and one championship?
Not very Clarkesque!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZYhJR1E[/youtube]

[lebesset]

my comment was quite simple , how many of you were there , not many had the privelege I am sure , I just think you had to see it to believe it ; I was always a graham hill fan , but you had to face the fact that jimmy was the man

you can only be the best of your time , and frankly I suspect the cars were easily as difficult to drive as today's machines

but the thing about clark was the universal acknowledgement by his fellow drivers that he was at a different level , one of his contemporaries said , when jimmy was killed in some mickey mouse car that broke , if jimmy can get killed , what hope is there for the rest of us ?
but one of the most telling things was what the tyre guys thought of him ...they worshipped him ; ok , they were only tyre bashers but they had experience ; one of them worked his way up , and I had him on my staff years later [ a lot older than me I hasten to add ] ; he said that if you looked at sets of tyres off the cars , you knew which came off clark's ...he may have won but his were less worn and more evenly worn because of the way that he balanced the car

I have never had the luck to go to the indy 500 ; the tale goes that the first time clark went he was practising and spun the car , caught it , and went on ; how lucky is that said the regulars ...here you spin ...you hit the wall ; a few more laps speeding up as he learned how to drive on an oval , and he did it again
he didn't win that time though , another car in front of him was dropping oil and should have been black flagged under the rules but wasn't , no guesses why ; even jimmy couldn't get past on the oil

position above the others ? hardly ...a little luckier maybe , right place , right time

ps , I've visited jim morrison's grave ...does that count?

[Mr Alcatraz]

Very informative and detailed reply, thank you. That brings me back to "The Boss"
So, in your considered opinion(which I hold in high regard)

but the thing about clark was the universal acknowledgement by his fellow drivers that he was at a different level

and I know this to be true of the Scottish Country boy.

You are saying that Lewis Hamilton is all that, and a bag of chips?
You might be right about his ability, possibly!!However he will never be universally acknoledged by his contempories and it's a smear to the name of the great, and humble Jim Clark that any spoiled contemporary screw-up, --- talking,
(I'm not just referring to "The Boss")

Star

will ever have anything like that said about him unless he dies in the cockpit, end of!

[lebesset]

well , as you will gather I bow to no man in my admiration for jim clark
but I think you are being unfair to lewis hamilton

jim clark had the great advantage of upbringing . he came from a family which , in britain , would be known as 'comfortable ' [ we love our understatements ] , certainly not wealthy , but privately educated at the most expensive school in scotland , when he was old enough he did things like hill climbs , no karting in those days ; that sort of things knocks the rough edges off ; if you look at the background of most of the drivers , they didn't live in social housing and have a father who worked three jobs to give them a better chance in life
and jimmy never sat in a F1 car until he was , if memory serves , 24 years old , and was also by nature shy and retiring

I rather get the impression that hamilton is rather a shy young man , just like jimmy ....but the F1 of today is a circus , and young men like hamilton have to get used to the spotlight and the greasepaint , and certainly some handle it better than others ; with the benefit of hindsight I am sure that McLaren would agree that it would have been better to put him in a lesser team for a bit , like vettel for example

but I would guess , whether they admit it or not , that the other drivers realise that hamilton is already the real deal , and is going to get better still , they don't like it , and who is to blame them ; hamilton has already had to live through the era when mad max would do anything to knife ron dennis ...hopefully that era is past
I can't speak for your side of the pond , but young officers in the forces here are put in a first appointment where they can make their mistakes , then move on and put them behind

hamilton ,however ,started where every slip would be dissected and used against him
as you will gather I don't think hamilton has arrived yet , but I don't remember the last time I looked at a driver and thought ..this one is going to be an all time great
but maybe you are correct about the comparison with jimmy , it is hard to believe that in years to come any contemporary driver will have on their grave the equivalent of

jim clark...farmer

[Mr Alcatraz]

Thanks for posting that I say fair play to you!
It's actually funny when you look back through the evolution of sports in general.
I think you may understand where I'm coming from.
I remember sport before television ruined it
On this side of the pond in the 60's and 70's you would have your game of the week
on Saturday. If you didn't have a top league team then you watched a minor league game in person.
The participants loved it, actually being paid to be a kid. There was not the sense of entitlement that came along with big money.

....

I don't want to get too nostalgic. Just one quick example of how things have changed.
San Diego has hosted a couple Super bowls The PR BS that goes on in the two weeks preceding the game is almost unbearable. Then I noticed that there was something called An interactive Super Bowl experience Basically the set up a few rather large booths in the parking lot and tried to guilt parents into bringing the young ones there to rub elbows with NFL players I found out that in order to actually take an active part for your offspring you would get soaked for about $90 to about 150 frog skins. Now when I was growing up we had an interactive Super Bowl experience
We’d get together with our friends and play football then come in and watch the game!

I love F1 It's the way they market it that makes me crazy!
It's the way of the world! It wasn't created by me. I just have to live in it.

BTW There is no paralell Universe. Trust me I've tried enough --- to get there

[Hangaku]

Hey you two, you'd better watch what you say. We can't have any of this sensible and informed chatter going on in here! What will all the regulars think?

But seriously, some of the best reading on here this side of Christmas =D>