F1 Quiz Chain

[timbo]

So, it's no surprise that, even if the first F1 monocoque chassis appeared on the 60's, for many years the Ferraris used a mixed chassis construction, combining a tubular framework with aluminium plates for better rigidity. Which was the only proper aluminium honeycomb monocoque produced by the Scuderia for use in F1 (model, year, designer)?

Was that 126C2, 1982, Postlethwaite? A sad fact if so...

[WhiteBlue]

312T, 1975,Mauro Forghieri?

At least wiki says it had an aluminium monocoque. No idea though if it was proper honeycombe.

Edit: Forget the above. The 1982 Ferrari was indeed an alu honeycomb according to Postlethwaithe's bio.

[xpensive]

Actually, I think the 1973 312B3 was the first full monocoque, but I cannot for my life remember the name of the designer, he was short lived though, replaced by Mauro Forghieri. Chassis was built in Northamptonshire actually.

[Gary]

Actually, I think the 1973 312B3 was the first full monocoque, but I cannot for my life remember the name of the designer, he was short lived though, replaced by Mauro Forghieri. Chassis was built in Northamptonshire actually.

It was Sandro Colombo (no relation of Gioachino). His version of the 312B3 proved to be a disaster in testing towards the end of 1972. Completely redesigned the car with a full monocoque (also designated, oddly, 312B3) and in the interest of expediency, its construction was put in the hands of John Thompson's firm TC Protoypes of Wellingborough,

Colombo's short-lived role as chief designer came about because Ferrari had punished Forghieri for the poor performance of the Scuderia in 1972 when they won but one Grand Prix by banishing him to engineering projects within the factory.

Colombo didn't last, was in turn removed from the racing department, and Forghieri reinstated.

All standard stuff for the wacky world of Enzo...

[xpensive]

Actually, I think the 1973 312B3 was the first full monocoque, but I cannot for my life remember the name of the designer, he was short lived though, replaced by Mauro Forghieri. Chassis was built in Northamptonshire actually.

It was Sandro Colombo (no relation of Gioachino). His version of the 312B3 proved to be a disaster in testing towards the end of 1972.
...

Of course it was Sandro Colombo, but the 1972 312B3, the low-inertia "Spazzaneve" prototype, was actually the work of Forghieri and one of the reasons why he was sidelined. But the thinking around that car came back in the form of the ultra-successful 312T.

[Gary]

Exactly! Come to think of it, you could probably get a healthy thread going on the basis of Enzo's effortless propensity to allocate blame.

[matt21]

Sorry guys for being late, but my network was down the whole weekend up to now.
Dumrick, you have been completely right. Thanks for the new question.

[xpensive]

Sorry guys for being late, but my network was down the whole weekend up to now.
Dumrick, you have been completely right. Thanks for the new question.

So, where is Dumrick, I have a poisonous one in store if I get the nod.

[dumrick]

So, where is Dumrick, I have a poisonous one in store if I get the nod.

Sorry for the delay, you've made me do some research to check if my source was right.

Concerning the 312B3, I've tried to search on the net for details on the vehicle. The best drawing I found of the chassis was in F1Technical's database.


It is possible to see, at least, some framework on both sides of the driver. Furthermore, the construction in folded aluminium honeycomb sheets started being popular in the final years of that decade, I doubt any F1 in 1973 had such construction.
I can trace back to 1979 some cars using this construction. The Arrows A2 (photo):


Also, Postlethwaite's ATS D3 from the same year also used this kind of construction. It is possible that the origin of this technique may reside in some previous top-team chassis, but I've failed to find which.

Was that 126C2, 1982, Postlethwaite? A sad fact if so...

Timbo is right, the 126C2 was indeed the only Ferrari using honeycomb chassis in 1982. This was the car that should have given Ferrari both world championships, if it wasn't for the tragedies that stuck both Ferrari's drivers, that year.
It was the only Ferrari to use this construction, because the Scuderia made a new revolution in chassis construction for 1983, matching the technique already used at the time by most british competitors and making a carbon-composite chassis for the 126C3.

Over to Timbo, then!

[xpensive]

For crying out loud dumrick, that drawing is of a 312B2! The B3 had no framework whatsoever.

[dumrick]

For crying out loud dumrick, that drawing is of a 312B2! The B3 had no framework whatsoever.

Put the blame on Tomba!

I doubt that the traditional aluminium construction (no sandwich honeycomb) would allow to surpress completely a reinforcing framework. I believe that only the torsional stiffness obtained by the use of honeycomb allowed finally to eliminate it.


Of course, I may be wrong. Have you got some documents backing your claim? My source is a 1993 article by Paolo D'Alessio.

[xpensive]

This is the 1973 312B3 spec on F1T, read chassis; "monocoque in boxed sheet aluminium"

http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/305

Now I can see where you got the wrong dwg, Tomba la Bomba I guess?

[dumrick]

Yeah, like I mentioned before, it was here at F1Technical I found the drawing...

Anyway, it seems little doubt remains about the construction of that chassis. I inquired specifically for a honeycomb Al chassis and it seems clear that the 312B3 was made with aluminium sheets. Every photo or drawing I was able to find of F1 chassis that didn't use honeycomb needed some kind of frame reinforcement. As I've mentioned before, to the extent of my knowledge, only in the final years of the 70's appeared chassis where all the stresses and loads were supported only by the outer skin, or shell.

Surely, that chassis is a monocoque in the same sense the Lotus 25 of 1962 was one. Photo of the first F1 monocoque:



The thing is that monocoque construction was pioneered in aviation and in aeronautical terms, most of the monocoque chassis in F1 were really semi-monocoques. From Wikipedia:

World War II was a major catalyst for aircraft development. At the beginning of the war monocoque construction was in its infancy and many aircraft still used mixed construction or internal frames; by the end of the war, all high-performance planes were monocoque or semi-monocoque.

From the same source, an aeronautical example of semi-monocoque construction, a tail of a kit aircraft, the Murphy Moose:



In this strict sense, I believe the right answer is indeed the 126C/2. Best picture I found on the net of its chassis is from a (fairly detailed) model:



This construction eliminated all internal reinforcements, besides all the rivets. It was made from two shells (upper and lower), joined (bonded?) together.

Xpensive, I would love to hear your "poisonous" question, maybe if Timbo doesn't make a new one in a day or so, you can proceed.

[xpensive]

With such overwhelming evidence dumrick, what can I say but "I stand corrected".

I'm afraid I confused things with the B3 being Ferraris first monocoque with the engine as fully stressed member, the B and B2 both had the chassis stretching to the rear of the flat-12.

I send you my potential question as a PM.

[timbo]

Caught a terrible flu, can't think of any worthy question, so, xpensive please go ahead