What does the TV telemetry show?

[raymondu999]

Ok, so this is what I'm on about. This thing. (taken from a snapshot of 2010 Q1 Australia)



So we know the throttle bar progressively shows us how much he's stamping on the power, likewise for the brakes bar below it, for brakes, obviously, and the left is speed. But I don't get why there are 2 rev tachymeters. One red and one blue. Can anyone explain? Thanks

[WhiteBlue]

The red is only the scale. The blue is showing the actual rpm value on the red scale. The central figure is the gear selected. Last year they had also the status of the KERS. May come back next year.

[raymondu999]

Actually, the red bar moves. But it's never lower than the blue. When the blue rev is going down, the red has a little lag before it itself goes down. But when the blue goes back up, and it reaches the red (not at 18,000) the red follows it. You can see it here:

[Belatti]

Thats because the red always puts itself in the "last" max rpm point.

So, when downshifting, if you pay attention, the red should be at 18000rpm (the last upshift should have been there) and then the brakes are applied, the rpm falls to lets say, 14000 rpm, the 1st downshift reaches 16000rpm and there is were the red will put itself.

I hope I was clear.

[jon-mullen]

I'm glad somebody brought up the TV telemetry because I've been wondering for a while:

The brake indicator seems to be on or off, not graduated in anyway. Is that down to driving style or is that the indicator itself?

[roost89]

I'm glad somebody brought up the TV telemetry because I've been wondering for a while:

The brake indicator seems to be on or off, not graduated in anyway. Is that down to driving style or is that the indicator itself?

The style of the indicator. Although in Racing you're often braking heavily, so you'll be near the maximum grip anyway (essentially emergency braking every time). Only trail-braking and if you're not at maximum attack will you get a difference in the brake applciation.
So I think they thought that a graduated bar would be pretty pointless as it'd be at 100% most of the time anyway, where-as the throttle application out of corners and through corners can be interesting, i.e. who's got more throttle where.

Not sure if in MotoGP they have a graduated brake indicator either. They use trail-braking alot.

[jon-mullen]

Ah thanks, roost, that's been bothering me for a while.

For the throttle, I like how you can see that they're sometimes giving it a little gas even while they're heavy on the brakes. Or how they'll be almost flat at the exit of a corner and they'll blip the brake.

[timbo]

I'm glad somebody brought up the TV telemetry because I've been wondering for a while:

The brake indicator seems to be on or off, not graduated in anyway. Is that down to driving style or is that the indicator itself?

Indicator style.
I asked that question a year ago, and the consensus was that it is hard to assign a scale to the brake indicator, because of different braking force produced by different drivers and no defined maximum. Although I watched once A1-GP onboard with telemetry, and brake modulation was seen there! But maybe standard car and braking system allows that.

roost89
they're not at 100% all the time! Especially since MS and the abundance of left foot braking. You can search for MS vs RB telemetry .pdf, also if you sign in Ferrari.com you can see telemetry comparisons between drivers and watch their braking inputs.

[roost89]

roost89
they're not at 100% all the time! Especially since MS and the abundance of left foot braking. You can search for MS vs RB telemetry .pdf, also if you sign in Ferrari.com you can see telemetry comparisons between drivers and watch their braking inputs.

That's why I said most of the time.
I'm fully aware drivers trail-break into corners. Reading my entire post would've lead you to that sentence.

However, I do agree with your statement on the difference between the forces produced between cars and drivers.
Possibly a percentage of brake pedal compression (is that the right one?) shown, instad of going by force alone. That seems better and they won't release much information to the other teams too.

[timd]

Well brakes are applied and measured by pressure not travel as they are hydrolic.

As brakes overheated / wore out the figures would change massively as the pedal goes long (and soft) and it would also change between braking systems or even level of ducting / cooling.

I don't see a reason why they cant do it but i think you would end up with people making assumptions about people braking difference but its just different sensor readings.

Throttle of course is simple as its pure travel.

The red bar travels with the blue but holds on max revs for a couple seconds. You can use this to see if they are short shifting or have the engine turned down a bit on the up changes.

Oddly in the wet i could see the throttle acting in a very artificial manor and different thru gears. The way it was moving thru the percentage throttles defiantly didnt look human like i have seen on any data logs. I was wondering if its reading throttle position after throttle mapping rather than pure pedal travel. ie: what the engine gets.

[timbo]

I'm fully aware drivers trail-break into corners.

It's not the trail-braking alone! When F1 car brakes it progressively looses grip and therefore can produce less and less braking force without locking the tyres. So, even if you have a perfect straight line braking, you have to ease off on pedal as car slows down.

[King Six]

I'm fully aware drivers trail-break into corners.

It's not the trail-braking alone! When F1 car brakes it progressively looses grip and therefore can produce less and less braking force without locking the tyres. So, even if you have a perfect straight line braking, you have to ease off on pedal as car slows down.

Yeah, something you can learn quickly and easily just playing an F1 game or something. Example: F1CE on PS3, turn off the ABS and then try to put in laps without locking the tyres and you'll understand somewhat of what's required in terms of braking...

From what I gather the TV telemetry doesn't really show what's going on with braking when I was asking about this same thing awhile ago.

Also, as a side note. I preferred the old style TV telemetry rather than this new one. I think they changed it in 09 or 08, I can't remember. In F1CE they use the old style telemetry

[davidc]

A little bit of a hijack here, as well as my first post to this forum.

Anybody remember that last year, after Massa was hit with a spring, that supposedly he was unconscious, yet he was at maximum braking and partial throttle?

[MuseF1]

Anybody remember that last year, after Massa was hit with a spring, that supposedly he was unconscious, yet he was at maximum braking and partial throttle?

In all fairness i think he got pretty messed up and whilst maybe not unconscious, was not exactly with it . Guess his natural reaction was to brake but due to left foot braking in f1 and the fact he was with the fairies meant he was hitting the brakes with his left and didnt lift off the throttle fully with his right