Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[NaZzO]

It seems the F-duct was codenamed as RW80 within the McLaren camp, probably meaning rear wing iteration #80.

Planet F1 http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6100 ... y-an-RW80-

[roost89]

Martin Brundle was saying yesterday that McLaren have an update this weekend on the rear wing to get even more performance from the f-duct......Does anyone have any info on this??? Thanks!!

Nope, but Scarbs on Twitter was saying that when watching the McLarens you can see a Vortex form and break (right word) when going up the straight and under-braking for turn 1 and hairpin.

They're iniating it very early onto the straight, I assume, to get more acceleration once the acceleration isn't traction limited.

[jason.parker.86]

That Macca looked at least 0.5s quicker than the rest of the pack... I know their Qually pace is crap but their race pace is amazing... come on Europe

[timbo]

That Macca looked at least 0.5s quicker than the rest of the pack... I know their Qually pace is crap but their race pace is amazing... come on Europe

Wet race pace. BTW wrong place to post comments on the car's pace.

[segedunum]

That Macca looked at least 0.5s quicker than the rest of the pack... I know their Qually pace is crap but their race pace is amazing... come on Europe

I wouldn't get too excited - just to keep the discussion on the performance and relative strengths and weaknesses of the car.

We've had three tracks in Asia with unusual race and qualifying conditions where weather and tyre decisions have paid off for different teams with a slight element of luck. The four races we've had have also been tracks where straight line speed advantage pays off. Just remember that McLaren are getting anything of up to half a second advantage per lap thus far over everyone else just via that alone, which basically means they are a long way off the pace when it comes to downforce, cornering speed and stability in slow corners.

That's only going to be seen really once we get to Europe, where at tracks like Barcelona the pay off for straight line speed versus downforce and cornering speed is far lower. I've seen nothing to suggest this is anything other than an Indian summer.

[raymondu999]

well technically the F-duct just allows to trade off the reduced drag at no reduced downforce though. I'm not sure that at tracks with proper straights (eg Barcelona) it would reduce their advantage. It has a long straight which could still be helped by the duct. I think really it'll be more a track without "proper" straights that we'll really see how good that McLaren (minus f-duct) really is. Tracks such as Monaco or Suzuka.

[thestig84]

Tracks such as Monaco or Suzuka.

Huh Suzuka has 2 pretty long straights!? Anyway I really dont think it gives them 0.5sec. How do people know this when noone fully understands the system. It enables them to run more wing but we dont know how much extra.

Im not getting carried away but Im also not expecting them to fall 0.5 off the pace on tracks with less or smaller straights.

[raymondu999]

Sorry. What I meant was that it has less percentage of the laptime due to straightline speed.

[segedunum]

well technically the F-duct just allows to trade off the reduced drag at no reduced downforce though. I'm not sure that at tracks with proper straights (eg Barcelona) it would reduce their advantage.

You have to look at their advantage relative to other teams, that's the important thing, and how much the system is gaining them per lap in comparison to other parts of a circuit.

Clearly at Barcelona it's still going to be an advantage with the straight there, but it will be worth far less of an advantage to them when compared to cars that simply have more downforce and better balance like Red Bull and Ferrari because those aspects of a car come more to the fore. Straight line speed advantage is lessened even further at places like Moncao where mechanical stability and traction are important.

[segedunum]

Huh Suzuka has 2 pretty long straights!?

They're not as long as those we have seen at Bahrain, Malaysia and China and you're talking about a circuit at Suzuka where downforce is king and that's where you gain most lap time. It doesn't have a bias as Bahrain, Malaysia and China do towards what you gain relatively from the straights.

Anyway I really dont think it gives them 0.5sec. How do people know this when noone fully understands the system.

It's well documented and talked about that it gives them a few tenths relative to other teams, and it's pretty easy for other teams to measure as to what it is giving them. That's why other teams are now looking at it because it's an area of development that can gain a reasonable chuck of time - in theory that is, as long as it doesn't compromise anything else.

It enables them to run more wing but we dont know how much extra....Im not getting carried away but Im also not expecting them to fall 0.5 off the pace on tracks with less or smaller straights.

The problem is, if they're a few tenths of a second ahead just via straight line speed alone, and they're able to run more wing and downforce, then McLaren should be absolutely laughing. They're not. They're losing at least as much as they're gaining in all corners if not more, and that's a lot of time.

It's not a huge stretch of logic to ask where all the cornering speed and time is going to if they have such a straight line speed and time advantage. I heard Anthony Davidson ask that in commentary.

[Just_a_fan]

Just remember that McLaren are getting anything of up to half a second advantage per lap thus far over everyone else just via that alone, which basically means they are a long way off the pace when it comes to downforce, cornering speed and stability in slow corners.

Phew, I'm glad you pointed that out - I was wondering why they were quicker than just about everyone else in the bits of the track that didn't have the really long straight in it. And I was wondering why Hamilton wasn't driving around the outside of people in medium speed corners that rely on downforce to be quick.

Oh, wait, that can't be right...

[myurr]

The problem is, if they're a few tenths of a second ahead just via straight line speed alone, and they're able to run more wing and downforce, then McLaren should be absolutely laughing. They're not. They're losing at least as much as they're gaining in all corners if not more, and that's a lot of time.

It's not a huge stretch of logic to ask where all the cornering speed and time is going to if they have such a straight line speed and time advantage. I heard Anthony Davidson ask that in commentary.

Considering that Lewis had far more front end grip than any other driver out there, to the extent that he could drive around the outside of turn 8, then I don't see how you can think he has no cornering speed. You said they'd struggle in Malaysia because of their cornering ability, and you were wrong. Lewis was mighty in the first sector which was mostly one long corner.

After clearing Vettel when they were both in clear air he was between 0.3 and 1 second a lap faster, same time, same position on track, both in clear air.

You continue to spout rubbish and continue to be proven wrong in every race. The Red Bulls are using their tyres better in qualifying, and it looks like McLaren still have a particular weakness there, but in the race the McLaren is right up there at the front and certainly in China was the class of the field.

[thestig84]

It's well documented and talked about that it gives them a few tenths relative to other teams, and it's pretty easy for other teams to measure as to what it is giving them.

Its well documented that is does all sorts, that doesnt mean its correct. Mclaren are the ones that know what it does and they wont go around telling everyone.

I would like to know how the other teams easily measure what it is giving them? By redbull drivers constantly sticking their heads in the cockpit? How do other teams know Mclarens wing levels, what speed the device begins to work well on the 25? Mclaren needed a lot of testing equipment to work this out yet you and the other teams know exactly what it gives them.

I see your point but you have nowhere near enough evidence to suggest it isnt just a point you are laboring to help you forget your mighty red bull struggling to 6th and 8th while an apparently highly compromised car finished 1st and 2nd!

[Pierce89]

The problem is, if they're a few tenths of a second ahead just via straight line speed alone, and they're able to run more wing and downforce, then McLaren should be absolutely laughing. They're not. They're losing at least as much as they're gaining in all corners if not more, and that's a lot of time.

It's not a huge stretch of logic to ask where all the cornering speed and time is going to if they have such a straight line speed and time advantage. I heard Anthony Davidson ask that in commentary.

Considering that Lewis had far more front end grip than any other driver out there, to the extent that he could drive around the outside of turn 8, then I don't see how you can think he has no cornering speed. You said they'd struggle in Malaysia because of their cornering ability, and you were wrong. Lewis was mighty in the first sector which was mostly one long corner.

After clearing Vettel when they were both in clear air he was between 0.3 and 1 second a lap faster, same time, same position on track, both in clear air.

You continue to spout rubbish and continue to be proven wrong in every race. The Red Bulls are using their tyres better in qualifying, and it looks like McLaren still have a particular weakness there, but in the race the McLaren is right up there at the front and certainly in China was the class of the field.

I was wondering what makes you think that Lewis being a great rain driver means the Mclaren all of a sudden hauled the load of downforce they're missing. Mclaren has ALWAYS been good in the rain because they're good at chassis setup ditto Ferrari. In the dry, the Macca lacks corner speed compared to Red Bull & to a lesser extent Ferrari. Fred is da Man one less stop & he would've won.

[Pup]

That Macca looked at least 0.5s quicker than the rest of the pack... I know their Qually pace is crap but their race pace is amazing... come on Europe

Wet race pace. BTW wrong place to post comments on the car's pace.

Indeed!