Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[Moanlower]

3. There was nothing wrong with McLaren's pit release. They both came out at the same time but Vettel and Red Bull just beat them to it and had clearly gained the place.

How could they be released at the same time and Vettel was ahead of LH?

Simply because Lewis had more wheelspin.

[raymondu999]

I think we can very clearly see that in mixed conditions where conditions are changing, Button just thrives by the flexibility of strategy allowed by the refuelling ban and can make excellent calls. The real question is, can they win a full dry/full wet race? I'm not sure that right now they have the outright pace to do that... anyone?

[Pandamasque]

Another very good point made by Davidson during the race - that blue painted surface in the pits is quite dangerous in the wet!

[komninosm]

The comment above says it all, no? He should have braked and lined up behind Vettel, not driving in the blue zone all the way out of the pit.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10680.html
"Back out on the track, Hamilton then dished out a driving lesson to Vettel, passing him with ease as he outfoxed both Red Bulls in one move on Lap 12."

-Where as Webber crashed on Hamilton's rear on a previous race when he was passing Alonso.

[komninosm]

3. There was nothing wrong with McLaren's pit release. They both came out at the same time but Vettel and Red Bull just beat them to it and had clearly gained the place.

How could they be released at the same time and Vettel was ahead of LH?

Vettel accelerated faster (Hamilton had wheelspin) and maybe a 0.1 sec earlier. It's not rocket science. Take your blinders off.

[komninosm]

I just wonder why certain people feel that Vettel is forcing Hamilton to do anything, but then, that's probably the only defence there is.

Vettel makes a move on the outside of Hamilton just as they are about to pit and forces him to take a perhaps illegal line into the pits

Vettel forces him to do nothing and he makes no move whatsoever. Vettel got proper track position for the pit lane and was actually in it. As simple as. Hamilton's brain perhaps wasn't in gear at that point, who knows, but he should have yielded track position at that point because he wasn't going to enter the pit lane properly.

Then they pit and they are released simultaneously (perhaps Vettel 0.1 sec before) so it not an unsafe release by McLaren (would be lollipop-man's fault not Hamilton's).

Nope, the pit lane release is definitely not wrong by McLaren. That's not an issue.

Vettel simply accelerates faster and overtakes Hamilton (who nearly spins, but that's also an accident not illegal). The the real bad thing happens. For no reason Vettel stupidly and dangerously doesn't go to the left side of the road (near the wall) to avoid the car he is overtaking...

Once again, Vettel forces Hamilton to do nothing. Vettel gets the position quite clearly and then Hamilton thinks he can wander down the outside in the pit boxes where he could have run over anything hoping to gain the position back. The position had gone. Vettel, being the car ahead, can drive where he likes in the pit lane as long as he's in it.

The only correct course of action for Hamilton was to yield, ease off and get back into the pit lane. Easy. It's absolutely cut and dried.

How could he yield when Vettel put his wheel in the McLaren side? If Hamilton breaked he would have caused the wheels to collide and a serious accident. You're also deluded about the facts of the pit entry...

[vall]

3. There was nothing wrong with McLaren's pit release. They both came out at the same time but Vettel and Red Bull just beat them to it and had clearly gained the place.

How could they be released at the same time and Vettel was ahead of LH?

Vettel accelerated faster (Hamilton had wheelspin) and maybe a 0.1 sec earlier. It's not rocket science. Take your blinders off.

ok, whatever, SV was ahead and had the lane. LH almost spun and crashed into him, and then dangerously drove on the blue zone.

[komninosm]

ok, whatever, SV was ahead and had the lane. LH almost spun and crashed into him, and then dangerously drove on the blue zone.

SV wasn't ahead they were side by side nearly. You can't "have the lane", there's no rule like that. LH big spin was an accident (not illegal) and Vettel should have already been on the left side of the road to avoid the car he was overtaking. Did you watch the Youtube vid I posted? Vettel clearly pushes Hamilton on the blue line for no reason at all and it doesn't even allow Hamilton to break for fear that wheels will collide. See the on-board cam vid too. Take your blinders off.

[raymondu999]

Looks like the battle here is much more fun to follow than the ontrack one we just saw

[komninosm]

FFS people, OK you hate Hamilton we get it. But please use only arguments that make sense. The pit entry is far more dubious for Hamilton than the exit incident (which is clearly Vettel's fault). Also Hamilton's other pit entry is suspect and I would like to see a video of it. And also a vid of the approach to the pit entry with Vettel here.
Why pick on such weak arguments when there are stronger ones? Alonso did way worse to Massa btw.

EDIT: Watch previous side by side exits in the past years. There are a lot. You will never find anyone doing the stupid move that Vettel does.

[imightbewrong]

FFS people, OK you hate Hamilton we get it. But please use only arguments that make sense. The pit entry is far more dubious for Hamilton than the exit incident (which is clearly Vettel's fault). Also Hamilton's other pit entry is suspect and I would like to see a video of it. And also a vid of the approach to the pit entry with Vettel here.
Why pick on such weak arguments when there are stronger ones? Alonso did way worse to Massa btw.

EDIT: Watch previous side by side exits in the past years. There are a lot. You will never find anyone doing the stupid move that Vettel does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNFIvp8K ... r_embedded
Alonso and Massa are side by side going in to the pit lane, Alonso had the line.

[andartop]

The arguments about whose fault it was will probably continue until the ash from the volcano settles down, but the simple truth is that whether it is or it's not in the rules, such shenanigans are plain stupid, dangerous, and definitely not my idea of racing.

Lewis is now supposed to be an experienced WDC, not a young gun, and he should have figured out by now how not to collect reprimands or generate so much fuss about his antics on every single race. Furthermore, the stewards should have acted in the interests of safety and hand him a penalty for dangerous driving, especially in the context of what happened in the last race, following the rest of the drivers' comments about what happened in the last race, and all that happened in this race.

First time he missed the pitlane entry even Martin Brundle admitted that they could have penalized him for going reverse on the track, and learning that if you miss your exit you have to commit going straight is one of the first things they teach in driving schools, but - what the heck - the stewards seemed to think he just got confused and lost the track. Second time around though it was clear they were having a battle with Seb and it was not an error, Lewis went straight on purpose forcing Vettel to lift off as he had nowhere to go. If anything, that was a shortcut gaining Lewis an unfair advantage. Same with Alonso and Massa. Only difference, Alonso had already been penalised for his antics once, Lewis seems to get away with it lightly. When the two cars were then released, I think it was quite clear for all to see which of the two should have given way and which should have held his line.

Having said all that, it will be fun to watch whether the rest of the drivers may start returning the favours to Lewis given half a chance..

[vall]

ok, whatever, SV was ahead and had the lane. LH almost spun and crashed into him, and then dangerously drove on the blue zone.

SV wasn't ahead they were side by side nearly. You can't "have the lane", there's no rule like that. LH big spin was an accident (not illegal) and Vettel should have already been on the left side of the road to avoid the car he was overtaking. Did you watch the Youtube vid I posted? Vettel clearly pushes Hamilton on the blue line for no reason at all and it doesn't even allow Hamilton to break for fear that wheels will collide. See the on-board cam vid too. Take your blinders off.

You take them off. SV was IN the late and drive OK. LH found himself in the blue zone unable to go ahead SV. HE SHOUDL HAVE SLOWED AND LINED UP BEHIND VETTEL. What he hoped anyway by driving in the blue zone? SV to move left and give him a sing "Go, go ahead, pass me"

[komninosm]

FFS people, OK you hate Hamilton we get it. But please use only arguments that make sense. The pit entry is far more dubious for Hamilton than the exit incident (which is clearly Vettel's fault). Also Hamilton's other pit entry is suspect and I would like to see a video of it. And also a vid of the approach to the pit entry with Vettel here.
Why pick on such weak arguments when there are stronger ones? Alonso did way worse to Massa btw.

EDIT: Watch previous side by side exits in the past years. There are a lot. You will never find anyone doing the stupid move that Vettel does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNFIvp8K ... r_embedded
Alonso and Massa are side by side going in to the pit lane, Alonso had the line.

Hmm they seem pretty identical passes to me. The only difference is that Vettel tried to overtake Hamilton with no room (dangerously) right after the turn while Massa gave a wide room in disgust of Alonso's move probably.
Hmm maybe another difference is that before this (on the big straight I mean) Vettel was behind Hamilton and Massa was ahead of Alonso, but they both seem side by side when they enter pit entry.
Is passing in that turn allowed? or is it considered no-pass zone? What's that white line for?

[komninosm]

ok, whatever, SV was ahead and had the lane. LH almost spun and crashed into him, and then dangerously drove on the blue zone.

SV wasn't ahead they were side by side nearly. You can't "have the lane", there's no rule like that. LH big spin was an accident (not illegal) and Vettel should have already been on the left side of the road to avoid the car he was overtaking. Did you watch the Youtube vid I posted? Vettel clearly pushes Hamilton on the blue line for no reason at all and it doesn't even allow Hamilton to break for fear that wheels will collide. See the on-board cam vid too. Take your blinders off.

You take them off. SV was IN the late and drive OK. LH found himself in the blue zone unable to go ahead SV. HE SHOUDL HAVE SLOWED AND LINED UP BEHIND VETTEL. What he hoped anyway by driving in the blue zone? SV to move left and give him a sing "Go, go ahead, pass me"

No, but Vettel could have moved left and still be slightly ahead of Hamilton and safely giving him room to slow down before the pit exit and get behind him. What he did was to push him out of track. It was dangerous and silly.
What I don't know is if the passing Hamilton (and Alonso) did on the entry was illegal. Can anyone comment on that with actual rules and not opinions? (see? unlike you I'm not biased and can entertain thoughts of being wrong)
The exit was racing incident with stupid dangerous blocking move by Vettel