Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[vall]

Do you want to be entertained or just watch them play follow my leader?

If you want entertainment this is for you:

http://us.wwe.com/

F1 is still a sport and technical challenge. This is the reason I do not like wet races: they often produce random results and not the best package of the day wins. We already had enough wet races this year and I hope the rest pf the season will be dry, but I doubt it.

So you don't watch F1 to be entertained? Strange. Semantics I suspect.

F1 is a sport and technical challenge for sure - but are you discounting tactics and judgement? IMO wet races show the talents and skills exponentially better, where split second decisions have even greater effect than in the dry. Luck doesnt come into it.....

tactics and judgement, yes, but not random factors. Almost all races in variable conditions bring lot of strange results. Judgment of what the weather will be like over next 1/3 hour is the job of metereology not F1 team personnel. I would say the wet does not show the talents and skills of the drivers exponentially better, it is rather down to car performance. Do you think Alonso is so much better than Schumy so he made him look silly in Hungary 2006? Or Hamilton was some much better than Kimmi (Spa 2008)? I do not think so. Just the respective cars were much better, that's it.

[ringo]

Then why is the little red and white curb outside the white line? What is a curb doing off track?

And that highlights the pointlessness of the rule of the whitelines being the edge of teh track. Take away the kerbs I say!

Well, i guess they make the track look neat.

[komninosm]

Because even if there is no rule against racing in the pit lane

Kerching!

LOL yeah he (Ray) admits there is no rule about racing and that what Vettel did to Hamilton would be considered blocking and not leaving enough room if they were out on the track anywhere and Vettel would be penalised for it, but since it was the pits and Hamilton it was his fault... DOH!

[feynman]

I'm sure someone could conjure up some sort of multi-faith act of contrition to be undertaken for their transgression of the holy white line.

Ha-ha

Hunt and Senna would be spinning in their graves if they read some of the posts in this thread.

Racing should be about drivers showing who's got the biggest balls, and spectators saying "OMFG how do they do that ?". If the drivers are happy with events, then so should we. We are just observers standing on the sidelines.

You are absolutely correct ... for shame that it needs pointing out.

My theory is that there is some physiological connection between internet commenting and testicular shrinkage (maybe hot laptops or something).


Proper oil-soaked racing from genuine hard-bastards, real racers pushing every limit, that's what we need more of, not a load of old HTML whining and fretting from a parent's wireless hotspot.

[Paul Oz]

I wasnt just talking about the wet showing the drivers skills better Vall - the whole team. Car setup with one eye on the weather/wet setup that Mclaren may have gone for today is all part of the strategy.
Lewis last year was pretty shocking in the wet (comparatively) stunning in 08..... obviously down to the car, not him.

[Paul Oz]

My theory is that there is some physiological connection between internet commenting and testicular shrinkage (maybe hot laptops or something).

ha ha - agree completely. I've always found the chinless keyboard ninja's on youtube entertaining in that respect.....

[komninosm]

Good race by Button and a deserved win.

So now lets see what Hamilton did in this race:

He went the wrong way on the race track.
He overtook Vettel in the pitlane.
He raced Vetel in the pitlane.
Did I miss any thing?

So how the hell did he only get a slap on the wrists?! I suspect that the former long term McLaren test driver, Alex Wurz is not impartial. Alonso only got a slap on the wrists for his move on Massa in the pitlane. Vettel got a slap on the wrists also, which to be fair was correct as his actions can be put down to red mist. Hamilton and Alonsos antics were inexcusable.

This stupid scheme of former race drivers being race stewards is really not working which is exactly what I thought when I heard about it.

Crybaby...
What Hamilton did was again pass everyone on the track like twice, including the RBRs and get 2nd place even with a bad call to pit early (Button's strategy was again the best, even with SC ruining it partly).

[vall]

oh dear, why not interfere? If someone gain position or whatever in an unfair way otr braking the rule, then what? Leave think as they are? I don't think so.

Only one driver gained position by breaking a rule today, and he got a drive through penalty.

That was fair enough. The point is that as people point out today LH broke the rules about 3-4 times he escaped penalty. For the same things other drivers got penalties in the lats years.

[komninosm]

Still not meant to pass there no matter if you class it pitlane or not.

Still doesn't excuse the other antics and the poor decision of the so-called race stewards.

As was pointed out to me when I criticised several Red Bull releases into side by side conditions down the pit lane, including several that Vettel benefited from, the pit lane is actually deemed part of the race circuit and there aren't any rules about not overtaking, etc.

As I've already said I think this should be changed, but until it is you cannot possibly argue that Hamilton or any driver should be penalised for a rule that does not exist. Especially all the Red Bull fans that either kept quiet or defended all the times Red Bull have released cars early.

EXACTLY!
Can you pls give me some vids of those pit lane side by side racings? Or at least give me names and dates pls?

[segedunum]

Wrong.

It is the race track, you can pass there.

Wrong. There are rules about crossing the white lines on pit lane entry and exit, and we've seen drivers penalised certainly on the exit. No amount of mind bending or mental gymnastics is going to make what Hamilton or Alonso did right or legal. The white lines are there to denote the boundaries of what you're allowed to drive in.

As for why these rules aren't being enforced, well, that's another story.

[Richard]

This video is thesort of thing I meant about seeing who's got the biggest balls, and spectators saying "OMFG how do they do that ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYjCBooeDI

[segedunum]

Initially at the point where most think he should have given way, their wheels were actually interlocked - it was only as they moved down the pit straight that they both moved to the right. So if Hamilton had braked immediately after coming out side by side then Vettels rear wheel would have gone over Hamiltons front, pitching him into a spin.

That's the biggest piece of mental illness I have ever seen. No messing. Vettel is in front. End of story. The wheels didn't interlock. Hamilton put his car in that position, and insisted on keeping his car in that position even when it was clear he wasn't going to get back in the pit lane that way.

The thing to remember is that if Vettel had stayed left...

He doesn't have to because he is the one in front. So you're now suggesting that a driver let a driver through who is behind just because he is Lewis Hamilton? Thanks for the confirmation of where you're coming from on that.

Following this logic then every driver going down the pit lane needs tyo be aware of cars pulling out of their pit boxes, because they somehow have right of way and you have to give them room.

It's utter brain damage, and you know it.

[komninosm]

If you watch the pit stops, I think Vettel was moving first. If they were released at the same time, then they would not have been side by side and Vettel has further to travel.

The way I see it is, the driver who is already in the pitlane has right of way and the other should concede. Vettel didn't help things by moving over a little bit, but that can be chalked up to red mist at being passed where a driver probably doesn't expect to be passed and a telling off is closer to the appropriate punishment for Vettel, though is still light.

FFS this again?! They were released at nearly the same time. It was not an unsafe release by the lollipop man. Hamilton had a bit of wheel-spin so Vettel accelerated faster and caught up with him (V also may have been released 0.1 seconds faster than H but that's still a safe release for McLaren). Hamilton lost further ground (he was side by side there) when he spun a bit next to V. Ham was never totally behind V, at worse half a car behind only.
V did not just "not help things by moving over a little bit". He moved A LOT and the other car was next to him not behind him. He endangered the pit crews with his stupid action because of his "red mist". The only one needing punishment is V.
THE END

[komninosm]

For the time when Vettel was pushing Hamilton into the garage; Vettel should have stuck to the left side. The speed of the cars is limited in the pit lane, that means that Hamilton could not come out ahead of Vettel, Hamilton would have ended up behind Vettel in the end anyway. Vettel only ended up putting Hamilton in unnecessary danger as Hamilton could not brake because his front tyre would ride over Vettel's rear and Hamilton could not turn right because he would have ridden over a wheel gun or something. Therefore Hamilton did what was best by driving alongside Vettel all the way. Vettel's move was very dirty in my books.

Why is so? What about just slowing down without turning left or right and then lining up behind Vettel? No danger what so ever.

I already told you to watch Hamilton's on-board cam vid. At some point Vettel's dangerous push had put his rear wheel on the side of the McLaren. If Ham braked then his front wheel would collide with Vettel's rear. When you spook a driver like that and keep pressuring him out of the circuit they can't break later because you might endanger them again.

[segedunum]

As was pointed out to me when I criticised several Red Bull releases into side by side conditions down the pit lane...

I don't know what you're watching, but equating that to something you think Red Bull has done in that past (I can't think why you're doing that) is nothing you can equate to in this case. No Red Bull driver has ever driven over the pit lane line into the pit box areas in order to try and overtake another driver.