Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[komninosm]

For the time when Vettel was pushing Hamilton into the garage; Vettel should have stuck to the left side. The speed of the cars is limited in the pit lane, that means that Hamilton could not come out ahead of Vettel, Hamilton would have ended up behind Vettel in the end anyway. Vettel only ended up putting Hamilton in unnecessary danger as Hamilton could not brake because his front tyre would ride over Vettel's rear and Hamilton could not turn right because he would have ridden over a wheel gun or something. Therefore Hamilton did what was best by driving alongside Vettel all the way. Vettel's move was very dirty in my books.

Why is so? What about just slowing down without turning left or right and then lining up behind Vettel? No danger what so ever.

Initially at the point where most think he should have given way, their wheels were actually interlocked - it was only as they moved down the pit straight that they both moved to the right. So if Hamilton had braked immediately after coming out side by side then Vettels rear wheel would have gone over Hamiltons front, pitching him into a spin.

The thing to remember is that if Vettel had stayed left, as all the other drivers have in that situation including where Vettel was the driver on the inside, then we wouldn't be discussing this incident beyond the release itself. Vettel put them both in danger by pushing Hamilton to the right.

The thing to remember is that if Vettel had stayed left, as all the other drivers have in that situation including where Vettel was the driver on the inside, then we wouldn't be discussing this incident beyond the release itself. Vettel put them both in danger by pushing Hamilton to the right.

EXACTLY! Pls guys get some vids of old (I'm not good with remembering names and dates sorry)

[segedunum]

I already told you to watch Hamilton's on-board cam vid. At some point Vettel's dangerous push had put his rear wheel on the side of the McLaren.

Holy crap. Vettel is --- in front. End of story. Hamilton is the only one who decided where he was going to put his car. He has no entitlement to track position there whatsoever.

You driver cannot decide to drive in the pit box area because he, or you, think that it would be unsafe to do otherwise. You people are nuts. Seriously.

[komninosm]

Both Alonso and Hamilton plainly cut the pit lane entry on separate occasions.

Surely that is a clear cut penalty.

If they don't apply the rules, all the drivers will ignore them... and next year we'll see every driver cutting that corner.

They did not cut the pit lane entry. You fail at expressing yourself. They broke no rule, no penalty.

[segedunum]

The thing to remember is that if Vettel had stayed left, as all the other drivers have in that situation including where Vettel was the driver on the inside, then we wouldn't be discussing this incident beyond the release itself. Vettel put them both in danger by pushing Hamilton to the right.

EXACTLY! Pls guys get some vids of old (I'm not good with remembering names and dates sorry)

As you well know, this is meaningless bullshit. If this is true then every driver coming down the pit lane would have to give way to other drivers coming out of their pit boxes - or if they're Lewis Hamilton. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is absolute brain damage. Not going to happen.

Previous examples have happened where two drivers have come out precisely together, and where they have managed to get position into the pit lane and Montoya and Raikkonen is an example from before.

If a driver is in front and there is no room to get alongside him and he doesn't give you room then you have no right whatsoever to wander down into the pit lane box area to try and get it. It's nuts.

[segedunum]

They did not cut the pit lane entry. You fail at expressing yourself. They broke no rule, no penalty.

There are white lines there for a reason on exit and entry............and they crossed them. There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[Paul Oz]

They did not cut the pit lane entry. You fail at expressing yourself. They broke no rule, no penalty.

There are white lines there for a reason on exit and entry............and they crossed them. There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you sure that the same rules exist for pit lane entry as exit?

[andrew]

If you watch the pit stops, I think Vettel was moving first. If they were released at the same time, then they would not have been side by side and Vettel has further to travel.

The way I see it is, the driver who is already in the pitlane has right of way and the other should concede. Vettel didn't help things by moving over a little bit, but that can be chalked up to red mist at being passed where a driver probably doesn't expect to be passed and a telling off is closer to the appropriate punishment for Vettel, though is still light.

FFS this again?! They were released at nearly the same time. It was not an unsafe release by the lollipop man. Hamilton had a bit of wheel-spin so Vettel accelerated faster and caught up with him (V also may have been released 0.1 seconds faster than H but that's still a safe release for McLaren). Hamilton lost further ground (he was side by side there) when he spun a bit next to V. Ham was never totally behind V, at worse half a car behind only.
V did not just "not help things by moving over a little bit". He moved A LOT and the other car was next to him not behind him. He endangered the pit crews with his stupid action because of his "red mist". The only one needing punishment is V.
THE END

Firstly I seem to have caused offense (thus the FFS... comment). Please allow me to apolgise for not being near my PC earlier today as I have obviously caused some offense.

If they were released at the same time then there would not be any problem as the Red Bull pit is a couple garages before McLaren. If they were released at the same time the Vettel would not have been alongside Hamilton unless Vettel had a tele-porter. Can you confirm if they had this as I did not see one but maybe the camera angle on the BBC coverage didn't show it all that well.

If you read my post(s) you will see that I say BOTH should be punished as BOTH were at fault.

Watch this clip of it. Vettel is in front of Hamilton so how can they have been released at the same time??

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyodQblymf8[/youtube]

[Richard]

Dear everyone,

Since this is a technical forum, how about looking at the regs and letting us know which clauses were infringed today?

You see I've read them a few times and I'm struggling to identify all those illegal activities that everyone is talking about. Here's a starter to get you going ....

F1 Sporting Regulations - 10 February 2010

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/f1regs.html

16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which :

- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;

[Paul Oz]

They did not cut the pit lane entry. You fail at expressing yourself. They broke no rule, no penalty.

There are white lines there for a reason on exit and entry............and they crossed them. There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Just watching the highlights again BTW..... theyre all cutting the corner on the pit entry, with 2 wheels the wrong side of the white line. Vettel and Ham both did on their last stop.

[ringo]

They did not cut the pit lane entry. You fail at expressing yourself. They broke no rule, no penalty.

There are white lines there for a reason on exit and entry............and they crossed them. There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

You are trying to pull a fast one here.
I noticed you say penalties have been handed down on exit, but you omitted pit entry.
Why did you mention entry intially then fail to mention it again when it comes to penalties?
Pretty smart way to bank a comeback for when you are proven wrong.

The curb is the track, the white line rule only counts when coming back onto the track from the pit exit.

[komninosm]

oh dear, why not interfere? If someone gain position or whatever in an unfair way otr braking the rule, then what? Leave think as they are? I don't think so.

Only one driver gained position by breaking a rule today, and he got a drive through penalty.

That was fair enough. The point is that as people point out today LH broke the rules about 3-4 times he escaped penalty. For the same things other drivers got penalties in the lats years.

Please provide reference with exact rules Hamilton broke 3-4 times and with video evidence of the offences. Put up or shut up. Then maybe we can send the evidence to the Stewards to let em know what a bad job they are doing according to all-knowing Vall the Ham-hater. ;p

[Paul Oz]

If they were released at the same time then there would not be any problem as the Red Bull pit is a couple garages before McLaren. If they were released at the same time the Vettel would not have been alongside Hamilton unless Vettel had a tele-porter. Can you confirm if they had this as I did not see one but maybe the camera angle on the BBC coverage didn't show it all that well.

Did you not see the slow motion analysis of the release? Both lollipops were raised a split second apart. Vet Wasnt actual in the pit lane, or actually moving, when hams lollipop was raised. He was alongside because of hams wheelspin iif you were watching the same race as me....??

[komninosm]

This video is thesort of thing I meant about seeing who's got the biggest balls, and spectators saying "OMFG how do they do that ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYjCBooeDI

I already linked that video to show people that Vettel was being an a$$, but it won't convince the Ham-haters...

[vall]

For the time when Vettel was pushing Hamilton into the garage; Vettel should have stuck to the left side. The speed of the cars is limited in the pit lane, that means that Hamilton could not come out ahead of Vettel, Hamilton would have ended up behind Vettel in the end anyway. Vettel only ended up putting Hamilton in unnecessary danger as Hamilton could not brake because his front tyre would ride over Vettel's rear and Hamilton could not turn right because he would have ridden over a wheel gun or something. Therefore Hamilton did what was best by driving alongside Vettel all the way. Vettel's move was very dirty in my books.

Why is so? What about just slowing down without turning left or right and then lining up behind Vettel? No danger what so ever.

I already told you to watch Hamilton's on-board cam vid. At some point Vettel's dangerous push had put his rear wheel on the side of the McLaren. If Ham braked then his front wheel would collide with Vettel's rear. When you spook a driver like that and keep pressuring him out of the circuit they can't break later because you might endanger them again.

That was just one moment, LH could have pulled out earlier or after. He did not do it until the last moment; he drove over the blue area all the way

[feynman]

Vettel does have a little bit of form here no? He squeezed Hamilton into the airlines today, and shoved Alonso over the holy white line at Hockenheim 08.

He likes to keep it feisty in the pitlane, he obviously considers it part of the racetrack so fair's fair.

All those with stopwatches going frame by frame on the McLaren release today, you probably don't want to click the link, think of your poor heart.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMDdoEjcVBM[/youtube]

note : Bernie's FOM flying monkeys killed this clip last time, so be quick.