Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[komninosm]

Initially at the point where most think he should have given way, their wheels were actually interlocked - it was only as they moved down the pit straight that they both moved to the right. So if Hamilton had braked immediately after coming out side by side then Vettels rear wheel would have gone over Hamiltons front, pitching him into a spin.

That's the biggest piece of mental illness I have ever seen. No messing. Vettel is in front. End of story. The wheels didn't interlock. Hamilton put his car in that position, and insisted on keeping his car in that position even when it was clear he wasn't going to get back in the pit lane that way.

The thing to remember is that if Vettel had stayed left...

He doesn't have to because he is the one in front. So you're now suggesting that a driver let a driver through who is behind just because he is Lewis Hamilton? Thanks for the confirmation of where you're coming from on that.

Following this logic then every driver going down the pit lane needs tyo be aware of cars pulling out of their pit boxes, because they somehow have right of way and you have to give them room.

It's utter brain damage, and you know it.

DID YOU WATCH THE HAMILTON ON-BOARD CAM VID?!
Wheels did interlock.
You're the one with the mental illness.
Vettel was never in front, he was side by side and after Ham's spin he was half a car ahead, never fully ahead. Every other case in the past of this event in pit lane has the driver giving room, not pushing to crash on pit crews. Stop being a Troll.

[ringo]

If they were released at the same time then there would not be any problem as the Red Bull pit is a couple garages before McLaren. If they were released at the same time the Vettel would not have been alongside Hamilton unless Vettel had a tele-porter. Can you confirm if they had this as I did not see one but maybe the camera angle on the BBC coverage didn't show it all that well.

Did you not see the slow motion analysis of the release? Both lollipops were raised a split second apart. Vet Wasnt actual in the pit lane, or actually moving, when hams lollipop was raised. He was alongside because of hams wheelspin iif you were watching the same race as me....??

conveniently this video does not have the lollipop men or when Vettel "smashed" (according to Webber's idea of pushing) Hamilton left.
These guys are cherry picking evidence to bolster their argument. They would make good lawyers. You have to be weary of the fine print and doctored videos when it comes to dealing with these guys.

[komninosm]

As was pointed out to me when I criticised several Red Bull releases into side by side conditions down the pit lane...

I don't know what you're watching, but equating that to something you think Red Bull has done in that past (I can't think why you're doing that) is nothing you can equate to in this case. No Red Bull driver has ever driven over the pit lane line into the pit box areas in order to try and overtake another driver.

That was the point! They weren't pushed out by stupid drivers like Vettel did to Ham. They were given room. Stop being this obtuse!

[komninosm]

I already told you to watch Hamilton's on-board cam vid. At some point Vettel's dangerous push had put his rear wheel on the side of the McLaren.

Holy crap. Vettel is --- in front. End of story. Hamilton is the only one who decided where he was going to put his car. He has no entitlement to track position there whatsoever.

You driver cannot decide to drive in the pit box area because he, or you, think that it would be unsafe to do otherwise. You people are nuts. Seriously.

Holy Crap! You're either a Troll or mental!
It's clear Ham is side by side with V and after spin he's half a car behind. Not ever a full length behind. No point in talking to you any more. You're deluded completely.

[andrew]

This video is thesort of thing I meant about seeing who's got the biggest balls, and spectators saying "OMFG how do they do that ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYjCBooeDI

I already linked that video to show people that Vettel was being an a$$, but it won't convince the Ham-haters...

How was Vettel being an a$$?? Hamilton (or any other driver in that position) should surely slow and let the other car go ahead and he was in a position to cause a fairly massive accident. Lucky there were not anyother pitstops on the go.

And kindly refrain from purile insults and snide remarks and keep what is quite a good discussion civil. If you care to read the posts rather than focus on the fact that it is your hero that is the centre of yet another hoo-haa, you'll see that this is not a "have a go at Hamilton session". If the cars were the other way round or if it involved two completely different drivers, then the discussion would likely be the same.

This is nothing to do with Hamilton hating or anything childish like that.

[Pandamasque]

They did not cut the pit lane entry. You fail at expressing yourself. They broke no rule, no penalty.

There are white lines there for a reason on exit and entry............and they crossed them. There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not aware of any rules for pitlane entry. Please quote the regulations if you know what you are talking about.

Although I do agree that Hamilton's driving was dangerous. So was Vettel's when he pushed the McLaren towards the mechanics. That was nuts indeed.

[Richard]

There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

Actually, there are no rules about exiting the pit lane. Read the regs, see if you can find it.

There is however a convention of painting a white line like a slip road before the cars merge, and the race director telling drivers that crossing that line is deemed unsporting. Then at some tracks (tight twisty ones) the director will tell the drivers that the pit exits is really really really important because the approach to the exit is unsighted.

Of course its only unsporting if it disrupts a driver coming down the straight, or is crossed to gain unfair advantage, or unsafe.

So, lets look to the last time there was a penalty. Rosberg in Singapore in 2009. very tight twisty track, blind approach, the drivers were warned in advance, Rosberg crossed the line by a long way, got a drive through penalty.

[andrew]

I already told you to watch Hamilton's on-board cam vid. At some point Vettel's dangerous push had put his rear wheel on the side of the McLaren.

Holy crap. Vettel is --- in front. End of story. Hamilton is the only one who decided where he was going to put his car. He has no entitlement to track position there whatsoever.

You driver cannot decide to drive in the pit box area because he, or you, think that it would be unsafe to do otherwise. You people are nuts. Seriously.

Holy Crap! You're either a Troll or mental!
It's clear Ham is side by side with V and after spin he's half a car behind. Not ever a full length behind. No point in talking to you any more. You're deluded completely.

Segedunum - correct Vettel is in front - FACT not opinion. End of story and no more discussion required really.

How your statement makes you a troll boggles the mind!

[Giblet]

Wrong.

It is the race track, you can pass there.

Wrong. There are rules about crossing the white lines on pit lane entry and exit, and we've seen drivers penalised certainly on the exit. No amount of mind bending or mental gymnastics is going to make what Hamilton or Alonso did right or legal. The white lines are there to denote the boundaries of what you're allowed to drive in.

As for why these rules aren't being enforced, well, that's another story.

Wrong.

All 4 wheels, yes. Not just two. That is only the pit exit white line you might be thinking about.

Please quote the rule so I don't have to, since you are the one in disagreement. then I will concede, no problem.

[vall]

Dear everyone,

Since this is a technical forum, how about looking at the regs and letting us know which clauses were infringed today?

You see I've read them a few times and I'm struggling to identify all those illegal activities that everyone is talking about. Here's a starter to get you going ....

F1 Sporting Regulations - 10 February 2010

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/f1regs.html

16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which :

- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;

to begin with, he pushed Webbo off track, no?

[ringo]

There have certainly been penalties handed down for crossing the white line on exit and the rules regarding those white lines are there.

Actually, there are no rules about exiting the pit lane. Read the regs, see if you can find it.

There is however a convention of painting a white line like a slip road before the cars merge, and the race director telling drivers that crossing that line is deemed unsporting. Then at some tracks (tight twisty ones) the director will tell the drivers that the pit exits is really really really important because the approach to the exit is unsighted.

Of course its only unsporting if it disrupts a driver coming down the straight, or is crossed to gain unfair advantage, or unsafe.

So, lets look to the last time there was a penalty. Rosberg in Singapore in 2009. very tight twisty track, blind approach, the drivers were warned in advance, Rosberg crossed the line by a long way, got a drive through penalty.

Hey your quoting the wrong guy!

[Richard]

Guys, accusing others of "mental illness" just because they have a dissenting view is out of order. Its the sort of thing Hitler/Stalin/Mao did.

Someone had to invoke Godwin's law in this thread, so I might as well be first.

Having invoked Godwin's law and in accordance with forum convention, this thread should be closed. (in my dreams)

[Pandamasque]

BREAKING NEWS!

When asked about his impressive race performance in the wet today Lewis Hamilton replied "I have no Idea what you are talking about! I was there just to buy some vases "

[Paul Oz]

to begin with, he pushed Webbo off track, no?

Nope - Vettel squeezed Ham into Webb......

[komninosm]

If you watch the pit stops, I think Vettel was moving first. If they were released at the same time, then they would not have been side by side and Vettel has further to travel.

The way I see it is, the driver who is already in the pitlane has right of way and the other should concede. Vettel didn't help things by moving over a little bit, but that can be chalked up to red mist at being passed where a driver probably doesn't expect to be passed and a telling off is closer to the appropriate punishment for Vettel, though is still light.

FFS this again?! They were released at nearly the same time. It was not an unsafe release by the lollipop man. Hamilton had a bit of wheel-spin so Vettel accelerated faster and caught up with him (V also may have been released 0.1 seconds faster than H but that's still a safe release for McLaren). Hamilton lost further ground (he was side by side there) when he spun a bit next to V. Ham was never totally behind V, at worse half a car behind only.
V did not just "not help things by moving over a little bit". He moved A LOT and the other car was next to him not behind him. He endangered the pit crews with his stupid action because of his "red mist". The only one needing punishment is V.
THE END

Firstly I seem to have caused offense (thus the FFS... comment). Please allow me to apolgise for not being near my PC earlier today as I have obviously caused some offense.

If they were released at the same time then there would not be any problem as the Red Bull pit is a couple garages before McLaren. If they were released at the same time the Vettel would not have been alongside Hamilton unless Vettel had a tele-porter. Can you confirm if they had this as I did not see one but maybe the camera angle on the BBC coverage didn't show it all that well.

If you read my post(s) you will see that I say BOTH should be punished as BOTH were at fault.

Watch this clip of it. Vettel is in front of Hamilton so how can they have been released at the same time??

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyodQblymf8[/youtube]

OMFG! You watch that clip and you don't see what happens?! Are you blind? Blinded by bias probably.
Thanks for providing evidence of Vettel swerving and putting his rear wheel between the Mclaren wheels [sec 8+]. Watch it carefully. I really liked Vettel, but this year he sucks and this isn't the only bad thing he's done.
How can they have been released at the same time?! Didn't we already answer that countless times? Vettel was released 0.2 seconds earlier (that still makes McLaren lollipop man's actions a safe release) and Ham accelerated slowly/poorly because he had wheel spin while Vettel made a very good start. Are you a conspiracy theorist or something? Free fall speed ring a bell for you?

PS: The FFS was because it was already answered.