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outer_bongolia wrote:After four races, I think he did not learn anything from Macca experience. FA is a good driver, but also a d*ck of a comparable scale.
I don't think MS was ever as bad as him - given he didn't need to since team orders took care of that part.
At some point Ferrari will need to start worrying about Massa getting fed up and just allowing an accident. I'm pretty much sure we will see how he will react in the next few races, since I cannot fathom Alonso being a supportive team member. He will do something too aggressive and mess up Massa's race again. (...and again... and again... and again)
I remember Massa complaining about being the sidekick and never wanting to let that happen to him again. Let's see!
segedunum wrote:Alonso is a great team player - as long as he's winning and his team mate doesn't get in the way and isn't too fast.
Can someone define what "team player" means, so we have the boundary condition to start discussing? Otherwise the vague term "team player" get twisted to fit the fans point of views...
I can argue that Alonso is a great team player trying to put himsenf and his team to the highest possible position. Of course the Anglo-mafia will furiously disagree
One question about the Alonso maneuver in china comes to my mind:
Was it planned that Alonso entered the pit before Massa
The thing I am wondering about is that the mechanics immediately put on the tires on Alonso’s car. These tires should have been Massa’s ones and as far as I know there is a rule that prohibits to put on the tires of somebody else.
mep wrote:One question about the Alonso maneuver in china comes to my mind:
Was it planned that Alonso entered the pit before Massa
The thing I am wondering about is that the mechanics immediately put on the tires on Alonso’s car. These tires should have been Massa’s ones and as far as I know there is a rule that prohibits to put on the tires of somebody else.
Alonso informed the team while entering the pits that he was in front.
Losers focus on winners, winners focus on winning.
Yea I definitely want to see any Video where we see that they either quickly changed the tires or mount the ones they had at the moment.
Second option would mean that they planned the switch before or that they mounted wrong tires and therefore should get disqualified.
I already searched for some YouTube video but didn't found any proper one. At least I can say that they had around 10 seconds to communicate the change via radio and change the tires. The stop itself looked very relaxed, no indicator for any stress.
I would have voted "no" but the hint at Ferrari bashing was pathetic.
Where drivers are concerned, PR is the same across every team. The slower driver will always described as playing a great supporting role and giving the team great feedback. The leading driver will be exceeding the teams expectations of the car. F1 team PR is always the same.
Mep, you bring up a good point when suggesting this might be planned.
Thus far Fernando appears to have better race pace than Felipe. Look what happend when he got around Massa in China, he finished 4th, while Massa could only manage 9th. Or how about in Malaysa? Alonso would have secured 9th possition even with his gear box issues had his engine not blown out, while Massa could only manage 2 possitions better? If I recall correctly, at one point Fernando was even attempting a pass Felipe. Suggesting that the gear box problem didn't have a matterial effect on drivablity and pace seems foolish, but I am no expert.
We need to consider the fact that maybe the TEAM wanted Fernando in the pit first. If the crew saw that Fernando had a better potential finishing place then what occured was best for the team. Wouldn't that be ironic...... both men being team players.
Also for all Hamilton fan boys on this thread (NOT HAING ON HIM, he is amazing and one of my favorite drivers, but not so much than my objectivity is blurred) did Lewis' failure to obey team orders in Hungary 2007 effect your view of him as a team player? Applying the "Alonso" logic it should...
The point is that if you want to be World Champion you have to be cutthroat. Schumacher and Alonso both know this, and you better believe Lewis does too. Being a team player in Formula 1 is driving as hard as possible and score as many points as YOU possibly can. Taking your teammate out of the race, or making a move that detriments his results more than yours are improved are the two exceptions. So even if this pit lane switch was a net 0 transaction for Ferarri's points haul, he still did nothing wrong as far as the team is concerned. In fact you can make solid arguments to the contrary.
Stop hating on the man and open your eyes to the complexities of the big picture.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so" - Mark Twain
Belatti wrote:
He is not a team player and I think its OK not being one.
If not, name a multiple WDC that was a team player...
That's easy: Alain Prost.
Hahaha!
No, seriously!
I almost fell out of bed laughing at this one, Prost was such a terrible "team player" he would have prefered there to be no 2nd driver and could not care less if it cost the team the WCC. Even Senna was much more of a "team player... for example his years with Berger and how he stuck with McLaren for years while they struggled a bit.
The team asked Prost if he would prefer Senna or Piquet as a teammate, and he said Senna, knowing he was much quicker than Piquet, and would be more than a handful.
He could have chose Piquet, and the team was prepared to listen, but being the team guy he was, he went with the fastest possible teammate.
Imagine if Schumi said "I want Hakkinen"?
I guess if by team player you mean a good driver teammate, or by team player you actually refer to the term that it means, for the good of the team.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Prost had NO idea how truly fast Senna was, Piquet was already a champion and was a proper asshole as a teammate and was already well versed in F1 politics... Prost "chose" Senna for his own reasons... and it was not for the betterment of the team... Prost thought senna was a youngster that he could push around until he was ready to retire... and who actually thinks anyone(Prost included) can guide Ron Dennis in a driver choice?
Imagine if Schumi said "I want Hakkinen"?
Then he'd get a hell of alot more respect from me... but I would guess that he values those extra WDC's more and any level of respect from anyone.
since this is team players tread, point me which of the current drivers (besides Alonso )is not a team player and why? How is the best team player and why?
It only really matters in the top teams... of which we have 4 this year... RBR, MCL, MERC & SF... so with MS behaving, and Rosberg not shitting on him in the press and how how SV & MW seem to be ok everyone(that matters) has been much better team players than Alonso has... pushing Massa off the track like that was as shitty as it gets.
But that is just this year... When another driver tries to blackmail his team with text messages he was personally invovled with and help fix a race by engineering a crash I will let Alonso off the hook.
