Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[komninosm]

1) LH slows a BIT and lines behind SV
2) SV moves left letting LH drive in the right part of the lane.

I see not reason why 2) should have happened and not 1). After all VS was clearly ahead and by all regs he has the right to choose the racing line...

Here's a good reason why #2 didn't happen: because the designated driving lane isn't wide enough for two cars. It wasn't made that way probably for the reason aptly demonstrated by this incident. Simple.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that it in a practical sense the driver who is on the correct road/path has the right of way over cars which are not. In this case Lewis ought to have yielded to Vettel. Vettel did not make Hamilton drive on the blue 'slow area', Hamilton chose to in some misguided brain-fart that under identical speed-limiting he could somehow gain some advantage by driving there. Everyone involved, drivers included, know it was not intended for cars to drive on that area unless pulling in/out of their pit-box.

Vettel was not clearly ahead, clearly implies full car ahead, not 50% or 75%. The rules say you are not allowed to push another car off track which is EXACTLY what Vettel did. If Hamilton was clearly behind Vettel then Vettel's move would not affect him at all, he would stay in the mid of the lane like normal.

You are trying to apply on-track logic in the pit-lane which I think will just end up in pointless argument.

Again, it doesn't take a genius to tell that in practical thinking, not to mention for safety reasons, Vettel had right of way. It's not anti-Hamilton, not anti-McLaren, nor pro-Vettel etc.. It's simple common sense.

Talk of defending the racing line and being only allowed to make one movement is sort of pointless in the pit-lane where, technically, car positions are determined by factors outside of driver control: the speed-limiting, the responsibility on teams to release a car only when safe (even if it means waiting for a dozen cars to drive past), and the duration of the pit stop itself.

For sure Vettel did the little squeeze, which is why he got the reprimand, but Hamilton ought to have gotten a drive-through in the least. Wait to see pit-lane protocol clarified in the near future to deter this sort of thing.

I'm just trying to apply laws of physics and facts.
Did you even see all the vids I posted about similar previous events?

[komninosm]

1) LH slows a BIT and lines behind SV
2) SV moves left letting LH drive in the right part of the lane.

I see not reason why 2) should have happened and not 1). After all VS was clearly ahead and by all regs he has the right to choose the racing line...

Here's a good reason why #2 didn't happen: because the designated driving lane isn't wide enough for two cars. It wasn't made that way probably for the reason aptly demonstrated by this incident. Simple.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that it in a practical sense the driver who is on the correct road/path has the right of way over cars which are not. In this case Lewis ought to have yielded to Vettel. Vettel did not make Hamilton drive on the blue 'slow area', Hamilton chose to in some misguided brain-fart that under identical speed-limiting he could somehow gain some advantage by driving there. Everyone involved, drivers included, know it was not intended for cars to drive on that area unless pulling in/out of their pit-box.

+1 exactly, LH chose to drive this way. SV indeed squeeze him a bit, perhaps to reminder LH that he should not do that

Except that LH was allowed to do that, we've seen cars side by side in pits before, no rule against it.
Also your "squeeze him a bit" comment is rather disingenuous. He squeezed him enough that Vettel's right tyres touched the white line and also he touched wheels. That's a far cry from "a bit".
Just look at all previous similar events in pits (I posted 3). The driver on the outside tries to avoid a collision and gives room to the one on the inside. Even if Vettel had stayed in the middle of the lane he would be doing less than all the others. But he murderously veered to the right instead. In the pits that's major assholery imo. Out on the track if you squeeze another car out, OK it's bad, but no one gets injured, cars are safe. In the pits however it could injure a lot of people badly.
:^o Vettel [-X

[Pandamasque]

Except that LH was allowed to do that, we've seen cars side by side in pits before, no rule against it.

On BBC Radio5-Live Ant commentated that you're not allowed to drive beyond the white line. By staying side by side with the Red Bull Hamilton was doing just that even before Vettel squeezed him further towards the pit crews (which was completely ). I'm still confident that the stewards aren't doing the job this year. Both drivers should have been penalized. It could easily end with fatalities.

[vall]

Except that LH was allowed to do that, we've seen cars side by side in pits before, no rule against it.

On BBC Radio5-Live Ant commentated that you're not allowed to drive beyond the white line. By staying side by side with the Red Bull Hamilton was doing just that even before Vettel squeezed him further towards the pit crews (which was completely ). I'm still confident that the stewards aren't doing the job this year. Both drivers should have been penalized. It could easily end with fatalities.

+1 Exactly!

[andrew]

Except that LH was allowed to do that, we've seen cars side by side in pits before, no rule against it.

On BBC Radio5-Live Ant commentated that you're not allowed to drive beyond the white line. By staying side by side with the Red Bull Hamilton was doing just that even before Vettel squeezed him further towards the pit crews (which was completely ). I'm still confident that the stewards aren't doing the job this year. Both drivers should have been penalized. It could easily end with fatalities.

+1 Exactly!

+1 also!!! =D>

[pgj]

Both drivers behaved like a pair of Sunday afternoon boy-racers trying to impress the same bit of street-skirt. They should both have been punished and the regulations should be changed before someone gets killed. What is the point of enforcing a pitlane speed limit on safety grounds if this type of behaviour is allowed to continue? Speeding is far less dangerous.

[marcush.]

Both drivers behaved like a pair of Sunday afternoon boy-racers trying to impress the same bit of street-skirt. They should both have been punished and the regulations should be changed before someone gets killed. What is the point of enforcing a pitlane speed limit on safety grounds if this type of behaviour is allowed to continue? Speeding is far less dangerous.

+1
you would expect that behaviour from middle aged business men having their sunday race in ferrari challenge..

[Rob W]

You're wrong. Hamilton was pushed as far right as he could go. Because he had overlap on Vettel, to be able to yield, he had to be able to move even further right to clear Vettel's rear wheel. How do you suppose he could yield in this case, if he couldn't move further right? Make his car float?

I didn't say anywhere he should move over. I said yield. Read what is written and not what you think someone meant.

He could have yielded by simply slowing down and moving in behind him - As pit-lane protocol sort of implies and as is understood by everyone else most of the time. It would have made zero difference to Hamilton's position or distance behind Vettel once they accelerated past the pit-exist line to the first corner but would have been a much safer choice - and one which is a no-brainer to all but the die-hards who want to debate details which don't alter the fact that Vettel was on the correct strip and Hamilton wasn't 30 or 40m before the Vettel squeeze even occurred. Hamilton should have been on the lane within a couple of car lengths at most.

Hamilton drove, what? 75m in the pit area (signalled as the part past the blue line) despite it being designated only for cars entering or leaving their own pit box.

In the end there may not be a rule which specifically states you must be clear ahead of another car before you can drive how wish but there certainly isn't one which says: if you think "she'll be right" and since no-one got hurt then it's fine to drive how you wish if you happen to wheelspin on the painted lines stubbornly not want to lose any advantage you may have had.

[lebesset]

+2 marcush
rules need sorting

[Giblet]

+7 - +4 = +3

I'm not even sure what we are talking about anymore, but agreeing is fun!

[marcush.]

Having worked in pitlane (not F1) I have to say this sort of ridiculous and responseless driving is quite usual in the lower ranks and possibly god is a motorsport fan so not more serious accidents happen in pitlanes.
In bad USA running across pit lane equipment is an instant penalty ,even if no one
gets hurt or put in danger..in F1 you can drag fuel hoses ,refuelingstations ,carlifts etc just as you like...
maybe it is not Hamiltons fault that F1 has not really installed the right rules
or does not enforce them.

[timbo]

F1 has not really installed the right rules
or does not enforce them.

Well, that is true. It's really strange that nobody in F1 seem to care about whether rules work or not until some sort of accident happen.
The prime example is that closed pit-lane bullsh*t. Everyone knew there would be a problem. Yet until Singapore noone really cared.

[TheRMVR]

Hamilton sometimes has those on the edge moves, just like Senna and Schumacher had those. And Alonso did the same to Massa in China. I think it marks the great champions.

[komninosm]

You're wrong. Hamilton was pushed as far right as he could go. Because he had overlap on Vettel, to be able to yield, he had to be able to move even further right to clear Vettel's rear wheel. How do you suppose he could yield in this case, if he couldn't move further right? Make his car float?

I didn't say anywhere he should move over. I said yield. Read what is written and not what you think someone meant.

He could have yielded by simply slowing down and moving in behind him - As pit-lane protocol sort of implies and as is understood by everyone else most of the time. It would have made zero difference to Hamilton's position or distance behind Vettel once they accelerated past the pit-exist line to the first corner but would have been a much safer choice - and one which is a no-brainer to all but the die-hards who want to debate details which don't alter the fact that Vettel was on the correct strip and Hamilton wasn't 30 or 40m before the Vettel squeeze even occurred. Hamilton should have been on the lane within a couple of car lengths at most.

Hamilton drove, what? 75m in the pit area (signalled as the part past the blue line) despite it being designated only for cars entering or leaving their own pit box.

In the end there may not be a rule which specifically states you must be clear ahead of another car before you can drive how wish but there certainly isn't one which says: if you think "she'll be right" and since no-one got hurt then it's fine to drive how you wish if you happen to wheelspin on the painted lines stubbornly not want to lose any advantage you may have had.

Ham drove 30m (roughly a second) and then was pushed by Vettel into dangerous wheel interlock for the rest 75m. Did you even look at the 3 vids I posted about previous similar incedents? Vettel was pushing right from the start. He did not play it safe and get on the outside to avoid collision like any smart/sane driver would have done. It's like he wanted to create an accident. Ham came out side by side but had a wheelspin (you can't blame anyone for that) and he managed not to hit anyone and stay half a car behind. Vettel was crazy to push and not try and save his car by going a bit further out. It's hard for Ham to do the launch procedure, save from a spin, and then decelerate to let someone by when on speed limiter. Also he would rightly be expecting the other driver to give him room like all drivers have done in the past in the pit-lane (and on track mostly). When it became clear Vettel was not giving room he could break, but then Vettel pushed him out (Vettel's wheels touch the white line for an instant ffs). It became too dangerous to slow down suddenly. The rules and the video evidence (past and present) are on my side and it is a no-brainer to all but the die-hard Ham-haters who want to debate details which don't alter the facts. [-X

[komninosm]

F1 has not really installed the right rules
or does not enforce them.

Well, that is true. It's really strange that nobody in F1 seem to care about whether rules work or not until some sort of accident happen.
The prime example is that closed pit-lane bullsh*t. Everyone knew there would be a problem. Yet until Singapore noone really cared.

I disagree a bit. There are rules. They call for giving room and not driving anyone off track. If Vettel had done what other drivers did (like in the 3 vids I posted) there would have been no problem since the pit lane was wide enough for 2 cars.
There's also rules about unsafe releases when a car comes speeding by your box, but Ham was released safely (mere tenths of a second after Vettel), he just had too much wheel-spin and launched slowly so Vettel caught up to him. Perhaps there is a problem in tracks with less wide pit lanes.