2011 18" tyres...

[noname]

we have different chassis, different engines, different fuels, lubricants, we had different KERS-es... all of them are differentiators, so why not to have different tires ?

reducing costs skyrocketing does not have to be so complicated. rules could define max number of tire specifications each supplier can offer for the season, changing them during the season could be banned (changes could be made only on the ground of safety/reliability and have to be agreed by all teams, similar like with engines). we may even still have a two tire type per race rule in place but it could be up to each team and its supplier to decide which two to use. etc, etc...

at the end of the day it's all about competition and extracting us much from the limitations dictated by the rules as possible.

[WhiteBlue]

Teams learn from history. The history lesson of tire wars in F1 is clear. In a tyre war teams rack up astronomical testing cost and only the tyres decide who wins. Those who put their money on the right supplier and work closest with him win. Many teams do not want to get back into that situation. I can understand that. So the only way for a tyre war is a standardized wheel which fits both tyres, a way to make the tyre the same for all (rotation) and rigid testing restrictions.

[Jersey Tom]

reducing costs skyrocketing does not have to be so complicated. rules could define max number of tire specifications each supplier can offer for the season, changing them during the season could be banned (changes could be made only on the ground of safety/reliability and have to be agreed by all teams, similar like with engines). we may even still have a two tire type per race rule in place but it could be up to each team and its supplier to decide which two to use. etc, etc...

Would make no difference. Regardless of if I'm a tire manufacturer or engine supplier.. even if I'm locked into one product for the season I'd still be pouring R&D money into developing next season's product.

[djos]

Teams learn from history. The history lesson of tire wars in F1 is clear. In a tyre war teams rack up astronomical testing cost and only the tyres decide who wins. Those who put their money on the right supplier and work closest with him win. Many teams do not want to get back into that situation. I can understand that. So the only way for a tyre war is a standardized wheel which fits both tyres, a way to make the tyre the same for all (rotation) and rigid testing restrictions.

As much as I enjoyed the BS vs M tire war I do like the current level playing field that a single supplier brings.

However Pirelli vs Michelin would be awesome especially if they went to 18" LMP Sportscar tires - that way the tire companies would have their R&D investment spread across more than racing 1 series.

[Jersey Tom]

[djos]

JT, you know a lot more than me about the practical aspects of my suggestion so feel free to apply some constructive analysis.

[Pandamasque]

I think 2011 should stay as it is now - without any tires at all. Now that would definitely improve overtaking! Also when teams agree to go for technologically advanced small econoblock engines to promote badge engineering, we'd still have some excitement left in F1. The sparks.

[sticky667]

a tire war for new companies will be a bit more difficult to maximize their product with the testing ban. if one company gets it wrong, say bye bye to the championship for whichever team they are running with.

[djos]

a tire war for new companies will be a bit more difficult to maximize their product with the testing ban. if one company gets it wrong, say bye bye to the championship for whichever team they are running with.

If the tyres where the same size and spec as LMP (LeMans Prototype) cars then they would have a lot more data than just F1 Testing - The LMP drivers dont seem to have any issues racing each other hard on their tires for long periods of time.

[Jersey Tom]

If the tyres where the same size and spec as LMP (LeMans Prototype) cars then they would have a lot more data than just F1 Testing - The LMP drivers dont seem to have any issues racing each other hard on their tires for long periods of time.

Complete speculation / handwaving.

[djos]

If the tyres where the same size and spec as LMP (LeMans Prototype) cars then they would have a lot more data than just F1 Testing - The LMP drivers dont seem to have any issues racing each other hard on their tires for long periods of time.

Complete speculation / handwaving.

Of course it is, what else would it be?

[Jersey Tom]

The point that I keep coming back to is that a sportscar and an open wheeler are completely different.

Different average track speed by itself, even without any aero effect, has a huge impact on handling and tire requirements.

Huge difference in total vehicle inertia, likewise, has a huge impact on handling and tire requirements.

Plus the massively different aero loading.. engine output..

The requirements for a 18" open wheel tire are NOT the same as a 18" sportscar tire. Might as well be as 'relevant' with the same 'synergies' as youd have with a 13" tire on an 80's Honda Civic, and the 13" current F1 slicks.

Anyone who expects to be able to bolt Le Mans tires on a F1 car and just "roll with it" is living in fantasy land. I don't care what experience any other tire manufacturer has with 18" tires. So what? Completely different ballgame.

Would be like saying "Oh well Dallara has decades of experience building Indycars.. F1 cars look about the same, their F1 car will be pretty awesome too!" Clearly that's not the case!

For all we know, the real reason Michelin could be pushing this is so they have a unique product that shuts out anyone else. E.g. they get FOM to pay them the development money now.. and 5 years down the road no other tire manufacturer can come to play because it would be wildly too expensive to develop on their own. F1 is then stuck with Michelin. In my mind, THAT makes the most sense and is the most plausible scenario.

The 18" thing just does not add up at all.

[djos]

Your right of course, LMP1 cars are 270 kilos heavier but aside from that they seem to be more hight tech than F1 cars these days and have a lot more power and torque.

F1 cars would prolly have trouble getting heat into the LMP1 compounds.

[Jersey Tom]

Michelin already has F1 compounds. With regard to power, as I'm aware, LMP1 only generate 600-650hp or so.

Like I said, the whole situation doesn't add up. As a corollary to my earlier point, if all these "synergies" were real, Michelin wouldn't need $80 million or however much they're asking for to develop the tire.

They're just full of crap. Doesn't surprise me, nor can I blame them. It's racing at a high level. It's competitive. To expect that ANYONE is telling you the truth or the whole truth, is naive.

[ringo]

Having 18s on the F1 is a real marketing treasure trove, even if the tyres are starkly different than any other used in motor sport.
In fact i can just visualize a michelin commercial now with an F1 car stopping beside a street car with the same wheels and seemingly the same tyres.

I asked this before, but how do the teams go about fighting to get first dibbs on the tyres?
And will ferrari, who mostly used bridgestone when michelin was around, even get considered for michelins next year, or will they hook up with pirelli?
Pirelli seems like a perfect fit for ferrari f1, and it melds well on their sports cars as well.