Has Alonso learned to be a team player?

[vall]

But that is just this year... When another driver tries to blackmail his team with text messages he was personally invovled with

and why this happened? isn't it because his team doctored his car to favour the other driver, and let the other driver disrespect what was agreed before the Hungary 2007 quali?

and help fix a race by engineering a crash I will let Alonso off the hook.

Either you prove it or stop dwelling on this.

[ISLAMATRON]

But that is just this year... When another driver tries to blackmail his team with text messages he was personally invovled with

and why this happened? isn't it because his team doctored his car to favour the other driver, and let the other driver disrespect what was agreed before the Hungary 2007 quali?

To use your own words...

Either you prove it or stop dwelling on this.

Alonso couldnt get around Kimi... so why should Lewis slow down to let both by.

And it has been proven that Renault fixed the race to benefit Alonso... I dont have to prove ---.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What exactly has Renault cheating got to do with Alonso?
He was found innocent in light of ALL EVIDENCE.

So that can be dropped from the argument.....

[ISLAMATRON]

There is a huge difference between "innocent" and "not enough evidence to be proven guilty"... he has never been proven innocent... and in light of his blackmailing McLaren I would tend to put him more towards the guilty side.

If he could deal with inside Ferrari info, and then try to Blackmail his own team with it, he could definatly be invovled with race fixing. He had to ask some questions when they presented that rediculous race strategy to him.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Baseless assumption and wild speculation.

Or BAWS for short.

Alonso is innocent. Anything else is BAWS

[andrew]

There is a huge difference between "innocent" and "not enough evidence to be proven guilty"... he has never been proven innocent... and in light of his blackmailing McLaren I would tend to put him more towards the guilty side.

No there isn't. If this was a court case he would be declared innocent as there is insufficent evidence. You never heard of "innocent until proven guilty"?

McLaren blackmailing? BWAHAHAHA!!!! McLaren treated a reigning WDC atrociously. McLaren deserved everything they got that year.

[Just_a_fan]

McLaren treated a reigning WDC atrociously. McLaren deserved everything they got that year.

You're right. They were totally out of order to give them both the same equipment and the same chances in each race and expect a seasoned, title winning driver to deliver over an (on paper) inferior driver.

Only an idiot would have thought that a rookie could have made a double world champion look just a little bit ordinary. Only an idiot would have thought that a double world champion would have needed protection from a rookie driver.

Really, when was the last time that a team protected a world champion from the on-track attacks of his team mate...

[andrew]

McLaren treated a reigning WDC atrociously. McLaren deserved everything they got that year.

You're right. They were totally out of order to give them both the same equipment and the same chances in each race and expect a seasoned, title winning driver to deliver over an (on paper) inferior driver.

Only an idiot would have thought that a rookie could have made a double world champion look just a little bit ordinary. Only an idiot would have thought that a double world champion would have needed protection from a rookie driver.

Really, when was the last time that a team protected a world champion from the on-track attacks of his team mate...

The rookie should always be the 2nd driver with the more experienced driver having No 1 status as they will be able to give better feedback on updates to the car and to drive things forward. Infighting caused McLaren the drivers championship in 2007.

[ISLAMATRON]

There is a huge difference between "innocent" and "not enough evidence to be proven guilty"... he has never been proven innocent... and in light of his blackmailing McLaren I would tend to put him more towards the guilty side.

No there isn't. If this was a court case he would be declared innocent as there is insufficent evidence. You never heard of "innocent until proven guilty"?

Yes, I've heard of it, that does not make it anymore true, some of us are smart enough to realize that courts of law are not the highest authority we will ultimately have to face.

The rookie was better than Alonso,and the team shoulnt have to protect him if he was so good... and if Alonso was so good at feedback why werent his last 2 years at Renault worth ---?

[Just_a_fan]

The rookie should always be the 2nd driver with the more experienced driver having No 1 status as they will be able to give better feedback on updates to the car and to drive things forward. Infighting caused McLaren the drivers championship in 2007.

That is for the team to decide. McLaren have always been extremely open in their dealings with drivers. As have Williams. Team orders protecting a 'senior' driver are just BS and have no place in a sport where people spend countless hours debating how to improve the show.

Indeed, only Ferrari have really imposed the "pull over, you're too fast" rule for the "junior" driver. (Although Jordan also did it in Spa for Hill's win and that was more of a "back off and don't overtake" instruction).

If a double world champion consistently needs team orders to stay ahead of a rookie then either the champ isn't that good or the rookie is very good. Which way do you want it?

[vall]

There is a huge difference between "innocent" and "not enough evidence to be proven guilty"... he has never been proven innocent... and in light of his blackmailing McLaren I would tend to put him more towards the guilty side.

Guilty until proven innocent are you inventing a new lay system or what? Never heard such a BS.

He threatened "his" them because everyone has a limit and Macca just when beyond that limit, especially in the view what happened in Hungary'07. And as matter of fact he threatened a team that was later proven cheaters and layers, and nor just once..... That's proven, contrary to most of your claims.

[Just_a_fan]

Guilty until proven innocent are you inventing a new lay system or what?

In fairness to Islamatron, it's the system most religions use to determine guilt. Christians were great at this sort of thing in the Middle Ages, for example. I believe they called it heresy (although the irony of the meaning of the word - from the Greek "to choose" is almost beyond funny!)

Accusing the defendant of "witchcraft" was another example of the system...

[ISLAMATRON]

They are just taking my words out of context... I never said he was "guilty until proven innocent" what I said was that there is a big difference between innocent and "not guilty" and he wasnt even found as that.

[ringo]

McLaren treated a reigning WDC atrociously. McLaren deserved everything they got that year.

You're right. They were totally out of order to give them both the same equipment and the same chances in each race and expect a seasoned, title winning driver to deliver over an (on paper) inferior driver.

Only an idiot would have thought that a rookie could have made a double world champion look just a little bit ordinary. Only an idiot would have thought that a double world champion would have needed protection from a rookie driver.

Really, when was the last time that a team protected a world champion from the on-track attacks of his team mate...

The rookie should always be the 2nd driver with the more experienced driver having No 1 status as they will be able to give better feedback on updates to the car and to drive things forward. Infighting caused McLaren the drivers championship in 2007.

All drivers go into F1 to win at all cost, that's the base line. I wouldn't spend years of my life driving, then finally make it to F1 to be told to lose to a slower driver because he is the champ. I am going there to kick ass and take names, no ifs no buts no maybe.

All drivers give 100% and if a rookie's 100% surpasses the 2xWDC 100%, what can he do?
Handicap himself?

[vall]

They are just taking my words out of context... I never said he was "guilty until proven innocent" what I said was that there is a big difference between innocent and "not guilty" and he wasnt even found as that.

There is a huge difference between "innocent" and "not enough evidence to be proven guilty"... he has never been proven innocent... and in light of his blackmailing McLaren I would tend to put him more towards the guilty side.

Your exact words! What do you mean by he has never been proven innocent? You do not need to prove somebody is innocent He was investigated and cleared of all charges, no?