Will Williams F1 ever get back?

[raymondu999]

We all know that WIlliams was a hell of a force to be reckoned with some years back. Some of this is due to the Newey factor who is now doing his same magic in Red Bull. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the last title, in drivers or constructors championships, that they won was with Jacques Villeneuve back in 1997. Then they've been reduced to fighting for wins, with the montoya-ralf era. And then they went on to fighting for points, and if they were lucky, a podium.

Where do you think they went wrong? Will they ever get back up to winning races and fighting for titles?

I'm thinking that if they actually finally impose a budget cap on F1, Williams will be helped by this as they're already a small and somewhat nimble team anyways.

[autogyro]

Frank and Patrick are the most experienced guys in the paddock and if that was all that was needed they would win every GP.
Williams has made some wrong moves over recent years and not the least was not finding a way to accomodate the aspirations of Adrian Newey.
Not to beat around the bush, Patrick Head is in charge at Williams and that is that.
Constantly variable transmissions was one of the things that held Williams back. Right from the experimental car with the cone(Van Doorne)CVT that Coulthard tested and was later banned, Patrick has had a 'thing' about CVTs and TVTs.
I would still like to see a lap time comparison between the CVT Williams and a conventional car of the time. Patrick brought this (some would say obsesion) into F1 development again with the flybrid toloroidal system used as part of the flywheel Kers system they planned to use. It proved to heavy and the later Williams Hybrid systems as in the Porsche GT3 Hybrid used induction charging for the flywheel instead. The result is good business however and there is no problem there with Williams. After an initial risky period of travel finding deals the Williams Hybrid systems are taking off around the world. IMO they make the Ferrari and Renault attempts look like a joke by comparison, which is why I am totaly annoyed that there is the possibility of these companies monopolising the Kers market in F1. That would be pure corruption.
Anyway Williams look healthy enough for the future but Patrick should get down off his high horse and find some clever people with new ideas outside the basic engineering side.

[Giblet]

They're problem for years has been cash as well, but that looks like it finally getting sorted.

Their recent cars have not been horrible, but they need to make that next big step.

Not having a consistent engine supplier for years does not help matters, or having a collapsed bank as a title sponsor.

Williams in my eyes has had more bad luck than any other team recently, but they don't whinge, they just get on with racing.

[xpensive]

To my mind they were contenders, with or withouut Newey, until they refused to accommodate BMW as a full partner, last of the independents you know, that way not only becoming just a customer team but also losing the mighty HP sponsorship.
After that everything went downhill and when the RBS money dries out, where are they, on parr with Lotus fighting over Phillips shavers sponsorship?

A truly sad story.

[marcush.]

williams should see the reduction of recources looming as a chance .Ferrari and Mclaren as well as the other Big teams will likely face a big challenge to reduce their staff and expenses to the required levels ....so starting from a smaller base it is likely to reduce your power less then if you have to cut your workforce dramatically.
Of course they will face the challenge of the new teams gearing up to the agreed levels snapping up all those secretcarrying brains ....

[timbo]

williams should see the reduction of recources looming as a chance .Ferrari and Mclaren as well as the other Big teams will likely face a big challenge to reduce their staff and expenses to the required levels ....so starting from a smaller base it is likely to reduce your power less then if you have to cut your workforce dramatically.
Of course they will face the challenge of the new teams gearing up to the agreed levels snapping up all those secretcarrying brains ....

That's what Williams must have done long ago.
IMHO they're too deep in big-team mentality, but they can't afford it anymore.
Also, they should find a competent aerodynamic to get to the root of their aero problems.

[autogyro]

The answer of course lays with Hybrid technology and the fully open development of Kers. Without this the manipulators at Fiat, Mercedese, Renault and others will establish a monopoly that will further delay any real benefits for both F1 and in the rest of the world.
Williams stands a very good chance of being great again but only if it faces and fights the big car companies tooth and nail to prevent them gaining the upper hand.
At present these things are in flux and it is essential that the new engine and Kers regulations are drafted very very carefuly.

[manchild]

They had several championship winning chassis since 1997. but unfortunately paired up with not that good engines. They've sealed their faith when they started prostituting for BMW engines by taking Ralf to team. Now they can't even convince anyone that they can build good chassis, and they certainly can.

I'd love to see them among top teams, but I think those days are finished unless they find a way to get top engine for next season, and design the car from scratch. Now's a good moment to ditch the current one as well as the deal with Cosworth.

[autogyro]

I would not discount Cosworth just yet.
The new engine and Kers regulations may well play more into their hands.
If you ignore all the company names, there are in fact few top level engine designers about and Cosworth have at least two.

[timbo]

Now they can't even convince anyone that they can build good chassis, and they certainly can.

These days all engines are relatively same. Look at RBR and Renault.
If you have a good chassis you're at the top.

[manchild]

These days all engines are relatively same. Look at RBR and Renault.
If you have a good chassis you're at the top.

That's based on myth that Renault engine's low consumption and reliability isn't one of the keys for success.

Similar power, yes, but not similar consumption, reliability, torque etc.

[timbo]

These days all engines are relatively same. Look at RBR and Renault.
If you have a good chassis you're at the top.

That's based on myth that Renault engine's low consumption and reliability isn't one of the keys for success.

Similar power, yes, but not similar consumption, reliability, torque etc.

Still, you see that RBR beats works team, and last year you could see Brawn beating McLaren and FI.
They beat Toyota once and lost two times when they had their engine.

[WhiteBlue]

I don't know when they had a single good chassis since 97 but certainly not when they had a ton of BMW money and the most powerful engine on the grid. It also would not have hurt their capability to hire a WDC capable driver to have Ralf as number two in the team. Those are excuses in my view.

It was Head who effed up because he never let a superior aerodynamicist take control of the over all direction of the team in times when aero was everything. Whoever went for the top position had to deal with him giving counter commands. Finally Michael resisted and officially Head went to do other things like the KERS and F2 projects, but that did not keep him happy for long. He is back at the pit wall and interfering like in his best days.

With this kind of combination Williams will never attract the right kind of people and be doomed to run midfield forever.

[xpensive]

Of all the mysterious hirings by Williams in modern days, nobody beats Zanardi, what was the logic behind that?

[marcush.]

I don't know when they had a single good chassis since 97 but certainly not when they had a ton of BMW money and the most powerful engine on the grid. It also would not have hurt their capability to hire a WDC capable driver to have Ralf as number two in the team. Those are excuses in my view.

It was Head who effed up because he never let a superior aerodynamicist take control of the over all direction of the team in times when aero was everything. Whoever went for the top position had to deal with him giving counter commands. Finally Michael resisted and officially Head went to do other things like the KERS and F2 projects, but that did not keep him happy for long. He is back at the pit wall and interfering like in his best days.

With this kind of combination Williams will never attract the right kind of people and be doomed to run midfield forever.

they had Bigois ,didn´t they?