Will Williams F1 ever get back?

[manchild]

WB, As much as I can recall Patrick Head was relieved once he got Mario Theissen out of the garage.

When the car starts badly they are very ready to accuse; they never talk about 'our engine' or 'our clutch' or whatever.

Of all the mysterious hirings by Williams in modern days, nobody beats Zanardi, what was the logic behind that?

They thought he'll be another JV. He was much more successful in the US than Jacques. It was logical, it made sense, but the engine was no good.

[timbo]

WB, As much as I can recall Patrick Head was relieved once he got Mario Theissen out of the garage.

I think that was the cause of the problem. PH was soo used to seeing Williams as his team.
It doesn't take a genius to simply look at the car (and I hate armchair aerodynamics) and say that 2002 Williams was, let's say, a "conformist" design compared to F2002 or MP4-17.

[xpensive]

Of all the mysterious hirings by Williams in modern days, nobody beats Zanardi, what was the logic behind that?

They thought he'll be another JV. He was much more successful in the US than Jacques. It was logical, it made sense, but the engine was no good.

But he was easily beaten even by Ralf in the same car, so how sensible could it have been?

[manchild]

Well, it turned out that JV was true jewel. Zanardi and Montoya were expected to repeat Villenueve's success but they never came close.

[raymondu999]

Well in fairness JV kind of faded away after his championship year though. I heard he was managing a cafe now. LOL. Not to mention a recording artist.

[WhiteBlue]

Fact is that Williams was nowhere without BMW in 1998 and 1999 and after BMW pulled out it did not get any better. Theissen got at least a 1-2 in 2008 with Sauber and consistently ran in the top three for years. Williams never even had a race victory after 2005.

[manchild]

Fact is that Williams was nowhere without BMW in 1998 and 1999 and after BMW pulled out it did not get any better...

Williams WCC standings

1998 (Mecachrome) 38 points

1999 (Supertec) 35 points

2000 (BMW) 36 points

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WilliamsF1 ... ix_results

[pgj]

I understand that weight is not the problem with WHP's flywheel KERS but size/bulk. Whereas batteries can be stored in sidepods the flywheel has to be placed close to the centre-line of the car.

Williams began its decline when Patrick lost motivation. By his own admission he turned his attentions to other projects. I have not seen it recorded exactly when that began to set in, my guess would be that it began when or soon after Adrian left.

It is not clear whether Sam was a Williams, a BMW, or a compromise appointment. What is clear is that he is now working his way through his third engine change in seven years or so. Even though the reasons behind the changes are well documented, that kind of upheaval cannot be good for any team. Williams, generally, has a poor track record when it comes to coping with engine changes. More often than not there has been a fallow season following an engine change.

I have posted on this and other boards before that Sauber and Williams are the first teams to go through a change of engine supplier under the most stringent testing restrictions F1 has ever experienced. It is no longer possible to throw resources at a problem. I am thinking more of throwing test laps at a problem here. It is something that other teams may well come up against in the future. Test restrictions mean that if there is a problem with the car then teams have to go racing with the problems in their race car. While we are on the subject of testing, Williams has reaped a harvest from having the most inexperienced test/development driver line-up in F1 for the last two seasons.

Will Williams get back to the front end of the grid? I hope so. It is possible, but there needs to be a period of settled development at Williams. The acid test will be whether progress is made against the rest of the field with development of the FW32 in the second half of the season. If that happens then the input from Rubens will be a significant contributing factor.

[autogyro]

+1
I completely agree and wish Williams all the best luck available.
Mind you I have noticed how 'mellow' Patrick is these days, perhaps a little prod.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I dont mean to bash Williams,

But their behaviour in the last 2 years has left an unsavoury taste in my mouth.
Their early defection to Mosley in FOTA/FIA war was very disappointing, given how Williams have benefited from manufacturers(BMW and Renault)
There obstinance in getting anything resolved in 09 was indicative of them being used as a pawn by the then "powers that be".

All the teams agreed not to use KERS in 2010 bar, you guessed it, Williams. Okay so they arent using it. But their reasoning was they invested alot of money into the tech only for it to be abolished. Well boo hoo, So did Ferrari Merc Renault and BMW.

And then Williams used the same age old excuse that has always held him in good stead. "We are an entirely F1 business" and cannot survive without it. So by my estimation then, every other team must suffer so Williams can maintain their "F1 only" status.
I find it ludicrous.

I dont want to take away what is an otherwise a fine and historical F1 team. Just didnt sit right with me....

[autogyro]

I dont mean to bash Williams,

But their behaviour in the last 2 years has left an unsavoury taste in my mouth.
Their early defection to Mosley in FOTA/FIA war was very disappointing, given how Williams have benefited from manufacturers(BMW and Renault)
There obstinance in getting anything resolved in 09 was indicative of them being used as a pawn by the then "powers that be".

Fota was set up to destabalise the FIA for the benefit of the big car manufacturers and as a way to delay Kers, this is now obvious.

All the teams agreed not to use KERS in 2010 bar, you guessed it, Williams. Okay so they arent using it. But their reasoning was they invested alot of money into the tech only for it to be abolished. Well boo hoo, So did Ferrari Merc Renault and BMW.

All the manufacurer teams have used the technology to improve their road car companies at the expense of any competition in the technology. This is what Fota was designed to do.

And then Williams used the same age old excuse that has always held him in good stead. "We are an entirely F1 business" and cannot survive without it. So by my estimation then, every other team must suffer so Williams can maintain their "F1 only" status.
I find it ludicrous.

Williams had to develop outside income because of the monopoly of the leading Fota teams and their unfair budget advantage.

I dont want to take away what is an otherwise a fine and historical F1 team. Just didnt sit right with me....

Perhaps that helps it sit better.

[pgj]

I dont mean to bash Williams,

But their behaviour in the last 2 years has left an unsavoury taste in my mouth.
Their early defection to Mosley in FOTA/FIA war was very disappointing, given how Williams have benefited from manufacturers(BMW and Renault)
There obstinance in getting anything resolved in 09 was indicative of them being used as a pawn by the then "powers that be".

All the teams agreed not to use KERS in 2010 bar, you guessed it, Williams. Okay so they arent using it. But their reasoning was they invested alot of money into the tech only for it to be abolished. Well boo hoo, So did Ferrari Merc Renault and BMW.

And then Williams used the same age old excuse that has always held him in good stead. "We are an entirely F1 business" and cannot survive without it. So by my estimation then, every other team must suffer so Williams can maintain their "F1 only" status.
I find it ludicrous.

I dont want to take away what is an otherwise a fine and historical F1 team. Just didnt sit right with me....

Misinformed opinion does not sit well with me.

[xpensive]

I dont mean to bash Williams,

But their behaviour in the last 2 years has left an unsavoury taste in my mouth.
Their early defection to Mosley in FOTA/FIA war was very disappointing, given how Williams have benefited from manufacturers(BMW and Renault)
There obstinance in getting anything resolved in 09 was indicative of them being used as a pawn by the then "powers that be".

All the teams agreed not to use KERS in 2010 bar, you guessed it, Williams. Okay so they arent using it. But their reasoning was they invested alot of money into the tech only for it to be abolished. Well boo hoo, So did Ferrari Merc Renault and BMW.

And then Williams used the same age old excuse that has always held him in good stead. "We are an entirely F1 business" and cannot survive without it. So by my estimation then, every other team must suffer so Williams can maintain their "F1 only" status.
I find it ludicrous.

I dont want to take away what is an otherwise a fine and historical F1 team. Just didnt sit right with me....

Misinformed opinion does not sit well with me.

Au contraire, JETs opinion sits well with my own.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Pgi

Dont suppose you could expand on that could you?

[pgj]

Any talk of Williams breaking ranks with FOTA is not true. There was a payment pending to all teams from FOM subject to signing up to a commitment to compete in F1 for 2010. Williams made an agreement with FOM to race in F1 in 2010 in return for an advance on Williams' share of the money. By the time that FOTA called for all team to withhold their commitment to FOM/FIA to race in 2010 William had already signed the contract. When FOTA suspended/expelled Williams from FOTA, Williams expressed disappointment but committed itself to being bound by any agreement that FOTA made, including technical changes, that did not cause it break an already legally binding contract. Williams then found itself stuck in the middle of the FIA/FOTA war. In the end all teams signed the new CA which triggered their payments.

Williams' position on KERS has been consistent too. Williams has never supported any move that would have seen KERS being taken out of the technical regulations. Williams agreed to the voluntary FOTA ban on KERS on the grounds that KERS was included in discussions for the 2013 engine specification. We have had leaks here and there but no agreement on anything yet by all accounts. There has been talk of twin turbo and gas turbine engines. Williams wants KERS to be an integral part of an engine specification rather than it being a bolt on device under the current regulations. Last week's comments by Sam Michael indicate that Williams and some other teams are frustrated by the lack of progress with the talks and have announced that will design KERS into their 2011 car. Renault said that it would supply a standard KERS at a fixed price, but only if the power output of the unit was increased.